17th Rapier to identify

Lansquenet59 · 6th March 2021, 07:25 PM

Hello,

Can you identify this rapier model? Is the pommel good?

Philip · 7th March 2021, 07:46 AM

Isn't the blade too wide to be a true rapier? From the photos, I'm thinking of a riding-sword (Reitschwert). There is a Germanic feel to the guard, in my opinion. But will leave it to someone else to address the pommel. Thanks for sharing the images.

Lansquenet59 · 7th March 2021, 09:15 AM

Yes that's right, it's a wider blade, thanks. Total length 97 cm

ulfberth · 7th March 2021, 12:24 PM

Hello Lansquenet,
as Philip noticed its a reitschwert = riding sword or a campaign sword, purely for military use.
The style is South German or North Itaian around late 16th C to 1600 to me. The blade is of course original and probably the guard and pommel to, but the pictures are not detailed enough to be sure.

kind regards
Ulfberth

Philip · 8th March 2021, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ulfberth

Hello Lansquenet,

The style is South German or North Itaian around late 16th C to 1600 to me. The blade is of course original and probably the guard and pommel to, but the pictures are not detailed enough to be sure.

kind regards
Ulfberth

Hello, Dirk!
Interesting that you think it might be north Italian. I've seen these broad double edged blades with triple narrow fullers at forte on many schiavone. Also possible that the blade might be if those three marks are indeed the commonly seen "asterix" or cockleburr stamps seen on many blades from the region around Venice. I agree, detailed pics would be nice!
Philip

Philip · 8th March 2021, 07:55 AM

Taking another look, there seems to be another basis for determining this sword to be north Italian as well as Germanic.

Here's an Italian sword in the Royal Armouries Museum (IX-155), this one a spada da fante or footsoldier's sword with an unusually wide and prominently-tapering blade, 92.7 cm overall, dated at ca 1560.

Ignoring the blade, one sees a hilt with a guard of essentially the same construction, although without a side-ring (ponte) connecting the ends of the arms where they touch the blade. This omission may be due to the practical necessity of accommodating such a wide blade. However, the arrangement of knucklebow and the loop-guard branching to form bridges joining the arms, without perpendicularly projecting quillons, is quite similar.

There is a parallel with the spirally-cut wood grips. Pommels are different. The asymmetrical shape of the RAM example's pommel seems to have parallels in the notched flat-sided pommel of the typical Venetian cutlass or falchion known as a storta.

ulfberth · 8th March 2021, 04:34 PM

Hi Philip that hilt looks like a predecessor of the reitschwert's or veld degen hilt.
Here is similar blade with the same stamps around 1500 in the Doge palace museum in Venetia.
kind reegards
Ulfberth

6th March 2021, 07:25 PM	#1
Lansquenet59 Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: France Posts: 132	17th Rapier to identify Hello, Can you identify this rapier model? Is the pommel good? Attached Images

7th March 2021, 07:46 AM	#2
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	blade ?? Isn't the blade too wide to be a true rapier? From the photos, I'm thinking of a riding-sword (Reitschwert). There is a Germanic feel to the guard, in my opinion. But will leave it to someone else to address the pommel. Thanks for sharing the images.

7th March 2021, 09:15 AM	#3
Lansquenet59 Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: France Posts: 132	Yes that's right, it's a wider blade, thanks. Total length 97 cm Attached Images

8th March 2021, 07:55 AM	#6
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	similarities in hilt design Taking another look, there seems to be another basis for determining this sword to be north Italian as well as Germanic. Here's an Italian sword in the Royal Armouries Museum (IX-155), this one a spada da fante or footsoldier's sword with an unusually wide and prominently-tapering blade, 92.7 cm overall, dated at ca 1560. Ignoring the blade, one sees a hilt with a guard of essentially the same construction, although without a side-ring (ponte) connecting the ends of the arms where they touch the blade. This omission may be due to the practical necessity of accommodating such a wide blade. However, the arrangement of knucklebow and the loop-guard branching to form bridges joining the arms, without perpendicularly projecting quillons, is quite similar. There is a parallel with the spirally-cut wood grips. Pommels are different. The asymmetrical shape of the RAM example's pommel seems to have parallels in the notched flat-sided pommel of the typical Venetian cutlass or falchion known as a storta. Attached Images

8th March 2021, 04:34 PM	#7
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 403	Hi Philip that hilt looks like a predecessor of the reitschwert's or veld degen hilt. Here is similar blade with the same stamps around 1500 in the Doge palace museum in Venetia. kind reegards Ulfberth Attached Images

7th March 2021, 12:24 PM	#4
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 403	Hello Lansquenet, as Philip noticed its a reitschwert = riding sword or a campaign sword, purely for military use. The style is South German or North Itaian around late 16th C to 1600 to me. The blade is of course original and probably the guard and pommel to, but the pictures are not detailed enough to be sure. kind regards Ulfberth