Inscriptions in cartouches Persian shamshir.

mahratt · 5th May 2022, 07:44 AM

Hello. Please help with the translation of the inscriptions in cartouches of this Persian shamshir.

mariusgmioc · 6th May 2022, 07:53 AM

Can't help you with translation but just wanted to say this is an absolutely gorgeous shamshir.

It is the first time I see the elaborate flower carvings on a shamshir blade as they are usually found on knives.

I hope somebody can help you with the translation!

Drabant1701 · 7th May 2022, 11:56 PM

Beautiful sword, very pleasing wootz pattern. I can see 35 in islamic numbers, at the bottom of first mark. Also the Yelman (double edge) is very long, I have not seen many swords like that.

GePi · 8th May 2022, 11:32 AM

Beautiful example. I can't help with the translation either, but here is a sword with a similar blade from a past auction and a Qajar Yataghan from my collection with an almost identical chiselled design at the blade's forte for reference.

ariel · 8th May 2022, 02:05 PM

GePi,
You brought two very interesting examples. Your shamshir seems to have an incredibly rare double-edged blade. Also, its scabbard has wire stitching, traditionally regarded as a hallmark of Ottoman manufacture, but the handle has a typical Indian gilded cloth wrapping and ( from what I can imagine) made of carved ivory, also suggesting Indian manufacrure.

I cannot see the pommel of your “yataghan”, but the blade has almost flissa profile. However, Berber flissas did not use wootz blades.

In short, IMHO, both swords exhibit fascinated mixes of different traditions.
I do not know how to pinpoint their origins, but both are unquestionably real and original and deserve active discussion.
More photos may help.
Great examples!

GePi · 8th May 2022, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

GePi,
You brought two very interesting examples. Your shamshir seems to have an incredibly rare double-edged blade. Also, its scabbard has wire stitching, traditionally regarded as a hallmark of Ottoman manufacture, but the handle has a typical Indian gilded cloth wrapping and ( from what I can imagine) made of carved ivory, also suggesting Indian manufacrure.

I cannot see the pommel of your “yataghan”, but the blade has almost flissa profile. However, Berber flissas did not use wootz blades.

In short, IMHO, both swords exhibit fascinated mixes of different traditions.
I do not know how to pinpoint their origins, but both are unquestionably real and original and deserve active discussion.
More photos may help.
Great examples!

Thank you, unfortunately the Shamshir is not mine, I just saved the pictures for reference, way too expensive, and unobtainable to me due to CITES anyway

The blade is early Qajar I am certain, when and where it obtained the rest of its components, who knows.

The Yatagan belongs to a small group, I know two others with almost identical blades but more eared hilts like ottoman examples, one was sold on RSword's site and can still be found in the sold archive, the other I found on a small dealers home page. The hilt decoration is typical Qajar work I would say.

Pictures of the latter:

5th May 2022, 07:44 AM	#1
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Inscriptions in cartouches Persian shamshir. Hello. Please help with the translation of the inscriptions in cartouches of this Persian shamshir. Attached Images

8th May 2022, 11:32 AM	#4
GePi Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Germany Posts: 95	Beautiful example. I can't help with the translation either, but here is a sword with a similar blade from a past auction and a Qajar Yataghan from my collection with an almost identical chiselled design at the blade's forte for reference. Attached Images

6th May 2022, 07:53 AM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Can't help you with translation but just wanted to say this is an absolutely gorgeous shamshir. It is the first time I see the elaborate flower carvings on a shamshir blade as they are usually found on knives. I hope somebody can help you with the translation!

7th May 2022, 11:56 PM	#3
Drabant1701 Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 181	Beautiful sword, very pleasing wootz pattern. I can see 35 in islamic numbers, at the bottom of first mark. Also the Yelman (double edge) is very long, I have not seen many swords like that.

8th May 2022, 02:05 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	GePi, You brought two very interesting examples. Your shamshir seems to have an incredibly rare double-edged blade. Also, its scabbard has wire stitching, traditionally regarded as a hallmark of Ottoman manufacture, but the handle has a typical Indian gilded cloth wrapping and ( from what I can imagine) made of carved ivory, also suggesting Indian manufacrure. I cannot see the pommel of your “yataghan”, but the blade has almost flissa profile. However, Berber flissas did not use wootz blades. In short, IMHO, both swords exhibit fascinated mixes of different traditions. I do not know how to pinpoint their origins, but both are unquestionably real and original and deserve active discussion. More photos may help. Great examples!