THREE INDIAN LEATHER SHIELDS,RAJASTHAN

[BANDOOK]

Description: THREE RAJASTHANI LEATHER SHIELDS each of circular form and studded with soft metal prunts, one with red painted highlights - Diameter (range): 14-16 in. (3)

[sirupate]

Superb, I've always wanted one of those

[mrcjgscott]

Thank you for sharing these with us Bandook!

Incredibly handsome pieces, especially the highlighted example. Would it be possible to share the "interior" of the shields with us? It might help novices like myself spot what to look for when hunting an original example!

Are there any other indicators which would help with dating, etc? Also, what features denote that these examples are "RAJASTHANI" in origin?

Kind regards,

Chris

[BANDOOK]

hi chris,wil post pictures soon,these are coming to me next week from USA,then will answer all your queries
kind regards

[sirupate]

sounds good, looking forward to seeing the pictures and reading the info

[mrcjgscott]

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

hi chris,wil post pictures soon,these are coming to me next week from USA,then will answer all your queries
kind regards

Many thanks Bandook,

Looking forward to learning more about these.

I hope your customs men are more lenient than ours here in the UK!

Kind regards,

Chris

[BANDOOK]

hi chris
will have to pay the 15% gst on cost plus shipping,wont be able to escacpe that,just shipping thru fedex has cost me $275 from usa,cheers

[mrcjgscott]

Sounds similar to the situation I found myself in a couple of weeks ago Bandook!

I imported a small collection of kukris from the USA. Shipping and customs costs were a hefty addition to the final total.

But as collectors what are we to do? We have to buy these things when we see them, and accept the consequences...

[rickystl]

Hi Bandook.
A nice set of shields! Yes, please post more pics when you receive them.
Rick.

[BANDOOK]

Originally Posted by mrcjgscott

Sounds similar to the situation I found myself in a couple of weeks ago Bandook!

I imported a small collection of kukris from the USA. Shipping and customs costs were a hefty addition to the final total.

But as collectors what are we to do? We have to buy these things when we see them, and accept the consequences...

I TOTALLY AGREE,NO CHOISE WHEN U WANT SOMETHING OR HAVE BOUGHT IN AUCTION,BUT AT END OF THE DAY,WE ARE HAPPY

[BANDOOK]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Bandook.
A nice set of shields! Yes, please post more pics when you receive them.
Rick.

HI RICK WILL DO,WANT TO PHOTOGRAPH THE BACK OF ALL SHIELDS WHICH TELL MORE OF THEM,CHEERS RAJESH

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by mrcjgscott

Sounds similar to the situation I found myself in a couple of weeks ago Bandook!

I imported a small collection of kukris from the USA. Shipping and customs costs were a hefty addition to the final total.

But as collectors what are we to do? We have to buy these things when we see them, and accept the consequences...

Hi mrcjgscott, I am assuming from your comment that you are also in NZ?What shipping/landing costs come to, depends greatly on HOW you get stuff sent. If you have stuff sent USPS then the costs would be much less than having stuff sent Airfreight (FEDEX etc), where every man and his dog wants a bite of the cherry!
Stu

[mrcjgscott]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi mrcjgscott, I am assuming from your comment that you are also in NZ?What shipping/landing costs come to, depends greatly on HOW you get stuff sent. If you have stuff sent USPS then the costs would be much less than having stuff sent Airfreight (FEDEX etc), where every man and his dog wants a bite of the cherry!
Stu

Hello Stu,

No, I am in the UK, but it seems to be the same story wherever you are, the cherry is well gnawed by the time it arrives!!

Kind regards,

Chris

[BANDOOK]

THEY ARE FINALLY IN MY HANDS AFTER 10 DAYS OF ARRIVAL FROM USA,CUSTOMS AND MINISTRY OF PRIMARY INDUSTRYS CONFIRMING THEY ARE GENUINE ANTIQUES AND MPI,SO SEE THERE IS NO CONTAMINATION AS MADE OF LEATHER.,SO HAPPY THEY HAVE ARRIVED IN GOOD CONDITION ,SO DID NOT NEED TO PAY DUTY BUT JUST THE MANDATORY GST OF 15 %,WHICH IS GOOD.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Well the customs can sometimes 'misunderstand' the situation, and as they sit on the power to stop the item or to send it on, the only thing you can do is hold your breath.
I have had a few'funny' ones, but I will tell you about the Germans. Dont ever get sometihing delivered, which has to land in Germany for tanking or whatever.
Years ago I hear about someone living in Germany. He had bought a dagger in the US, if I remember correctly, and on arrival it was confiscated, as it had a ivory hilt. He should tave thought of this, and gotten the permission to import it, but he had forgotten.The end was that he was not even allowed to give it to a museum.

[rickystl]

Hi Bandook.
That is a nice set of shields. Now that you have three, you have one or two to trade for something else down the road. LOL I'm guessing the cost of shipping three was not much more than shipping one due to the light weight (?)
Again, nice looking set.
Rick.

[sirupate]

Lovely shields, glad they arrived safely and in good condition

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by mrcjgscott

Thank you for sharing these with us Bandook!

Incredibly handsome pieces, especially the highlighted example. Would it be possible to share the "interior" of the shields with us? It might help novices like myself spot what to look for when hunting an original example!

Are there any other indicators which would help with dating, etc? Also, what features denote that these examples are "RAJASTHANI" in origin?

Kind regards,

Chris

An excellent question Chris!
Actually the 'Rajasthani' designation is a bit cavalier in my view, when attempting to classify these outstanding examples of Indian 'dhal' (shield).
However, in degree in does work as this quite large area of the Indian subcontinent probably did account for good proportion of these as well as many forms of arms and armour.

I believe the assumption might have been set by the dhal with the distinctive crescent above the four bosses. This device is typically representative of the Chandravanshi clan of Rajputs ( E.Jaiwent Paul, p121) which were one of the major lineages of these warrior tribes. The reference to Rajputs typically presumes Rajasthan, though they were in power in other regions outside that geographic designation.

The other examples are typical of a wide range of areas as well, and the one which is purely hide without other adornment except the four bosses resembles one shown in "Oriental Armour" (Robinson, plate XXI, D) as Mahratta 18th c. It should be noted that the 'Mahratta' designation also could be broadly interpreted to the Maratha castes and Empire (1674-1820) which also extended into Rajasthani regions.

The point is that it is very difficult to classify Indian arms by region, much as by specific period, however these seem with good age and character. The Rajput example shows interesting integrity with what appears a working life replacement of one of the radiating backs on one of the bosses which is smaller than the others.

Excellent examples, and I would love to see them amidst a array of tulwars and other Indian arms!

[BANDOOK]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

An excellent question Chris!
Actually the 'Rajasthani' designation is a bit cavalier in my view, when attempting to classify these outstanding examples of Indian 'dhal' (shield).
However, in degree in does work as this quite large area of the Indian subcontinent probably did account for good proportion of these as well as many forms of arms and armour.

I believe the assumption might have been set by the dhal with the distinctive crescent above the four bosses. This device is typically representative of the Chandravanshi clan of Rajputs ( E.Jaiwent Paul, p121) which were one of the major lineages of these warrior tribes. The reference to Rajputs typically presumes Rajasthan, though they were in power in other regions outside that geographic designation.

The other examples are typical of a wide range of areas as well, and the one which is purely hide without other adornment except the four bosses resembles one shown in "Oriental Armour" (Robinson, plate XXI, D) as Mahratta 18th c. It should be noted that the 'Mahratta' designation also could be broadly interpreted to the Maratha castes and Empire (1674-1820) which also extended into Rajasthani regions.

The point is that it is very difficult to classify Indian arms by region, much as by specific period, however these seem with good age and character. The Rajput example shows interesting integrity with what appears a working life replacement of one of the radiating backs on one of the bosses which is smaller than the others.

Excellent examples, and I would love to see them amidst a array of tulwars and other Indian arms!

THANKS JIM THATS GREAT INFORMATION,YOU ARE RIGHT THE RAJPUT RULERS EXTENDED THEIR RULE TO GUJRAT,MAHARASHTRA,UTTAR PRADESH AND UPTO NEPAL,INFACT THE RANAS OF NEPAL HAVE MIGRATED FROM RAJASTHAN,CHEERS

[BANDOOK]

Originally Posted by sirupate

Lovely shields, glad they arrived safely and in good condition

THANKS SIRUPATE

[BANDOOK]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Bandook.
That is a nice set of shields. Now that you have three, you have one or two to trade for something else down the road. LOL I'm guessing the cost of shipping three was not much more than shipping one due to the light weight (?)
Again, nice looking set.
Rick.

HI RICK THANKS ,YOU ARE RIGHT I COULD GET DOWN THE SHIPPING FROM 360$ USD TO 260$ USD AS THEY COULD GO INTO EACHOTHER,SO QUIET COMPACT AND SHIPPING FOR ONE OR THREE WOULD MORE OR LESS BE THE SAME,CHEERS

[mrcjgscott]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

An excellent question Chris!
Actually the 'Rajasthani' designation is a bit cavalier in my view, when attempting to classify these outstanding examples of Indian 'dhal' (shield).
However, in degree in does work as this quite large area of the Indian subcontinent probably did account for good proportion of these as well as many forms of arms and armour.

I believe the assumption might have been set by the dhal with the distinctive crescent above the four bosses. This device is typically representative of the Chandravanshi clan of Rajputs ( E.Jaiwent Paul, p121) which were one of the major lineages of these warrior tribes. The reference to Rajputs typically presumes Rajasthan, though they were in power in other regions outside that geographic designation.

The other examples are typical of a wide range of areas as well, and the one which is purely hide without other adornment except the four bosses resembles one shown in "Oriental Armour" (Robinson, plate XXI, D) as Mahratta 18th c. It should be noted that the 'Mahratta' designation also could be broadly interpreted to the Maratha castes and Empire (1674-1820) which also extended into Rajasthani regions.

The point is that it is very difficult to classify Indian arms by region, much as by specific period, however these seem with good age and character. The Rajput example shows interesting integrity with what appears a working life replacement of one of the radiating backs on one of the bosses which is smaller than the others.

Excellent examples, and I would love to see them amidst a array of tulwars and other Indian arms!

Hello Jim,

Many thanks indeed for another detailed response. The muddy waters become a little clearer each day.

The information about the crescent moon is most useful, as it is a symbol I see with some frequency on such shields, and of course on many kukri. The "Rajput connection" is obviously a very significant one!

The condition of the pieces is very pleasing, given their apparent age, I shall have to try and hunt out a good one for myself (let alone three!)

Kind regards,

Chris

[mrcjgscott]

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

THANKS JIM THATS GREAT INFORMATION,YOU ARE RIGHT THE RAJPUT RULERS EXTENDED THEIR RULE TO GUJRAT,MAHARASHTRA,UTTAR PRADESH AND UPTO NEPAL,INFACT THE RANAS OF NEPAL HAVE MIGRATED FROM RAJASTHAN,CHEERS

Hello Bandook,

My apologies for not getting back to you sooner.

Many thanks indeed for sharing these further images with us, very interesting to see three together, both sharing common features, and also exhibiting different ones.

I am very pleased they have arrived safely, and have lived up to your expectations!

Once I find a dhal to call my own I shall post it up here!

Kind regards,

Chris

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by mrcjgscott

Hello Jim,

Many thanks indeed for another detailed response. The muddy waters become a little clearer each day.

The information about the crescent moon is most useful, as it is a symbol I see with some frequency on such shields, and of course on many kukri. The "Rajput connection" is obviously a very significant one!

The condition of the pieces is very pleasing, given their apparent age, I shall have to try and hunt out a good one for myself (let alone three!)

Kind regards,

Chris

You are most welcome Chris!
The muddy waters analogy is well understood, as someone who has splashed around in them for more decades than can be defined I still am trying to learn. The pure joy of discussions here is learning and sharing so we can learn together.
Your note on the occurrence of these crescents on kukri in many cases is of course well placed with the Rajput heritage in Nepal, and I had entirely forgotten that, as also noted by Bandook.

Bandook, thank you as well for the response to my post, very much my pleasure!

[BANDOOK]

THANKS CHIRS AND THANKS JIM,AM POSTING ANOTHER SHIELD OF MINE WHICH I HAD POSTED FEW MONTHS BACK,JUST AS PART OF THIS DISCUSSION,CHEERS

[rickystl]

Hi Bandook.
Another nice shield. So the count is now four you have ?
Thanks so much for the pics. Especially the first artist's rendition and the last photo showing the Torador matchlocks. I'll add those to my library. Very cool.
The second photo down looks like he is holding a British Brunswick Rifle.

I'll add here my one and only Dhal shield that I originally posted about three years ago. I bought this because it had only the slightest bend. No cuts or scrapes and only a couple small bruises. It looks as though the outer surface had some gold wash originally in some type of pattern. One ring is missing, but the hand pad and two small pieces of leather grip remain.
The interesting feature is the very plain, hand hammered bosses. Doesn't seem to match the rest of the quality of the shield. But they are old and appear original to the shield.

Again, thanks for the potos.
Rick.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

Description: THREE RAJASTHANI LEATHER SHIELDS each of circular form and studded with soft metal prunts, one with red painted highlights - Diameter (range): 14-16 in. (3)

Hi Bandook,
Thanks for sharing your shield photos they look great makes me envious. I only have one hide shield my others are brass, my shield is a 19th C one from Ahmedabad in Gujerat and is about 20,5 ins dia and not as convex as your examples. What is interesting, as you can see from the photos, is that a part of the mane or tail was retained by whoever made it. Thanks again for sharing and I hope you enjoy my photos.
Miguel

[rickystl]

Hi Miguel.
Now THAT is a unique shield. Beautiful multi-colored decoration and detailed bosses. And the tail! That's great!! Maybe water buffalo ? Do you have pics of the reverse side of the shield? Thanks for posting.
Rick.

[BANDOOK]

HI RICK,NICE SHIELD AM SURE THE GOLD COLOUR HAS
FADED WITH TIME,GOOD PATINA,HAVE YOU USED ANYTHING TO PRESERVE IT,LIKE BEESWAX ETC,CHEERS

[BANDOOK]

MIGUEL THATS AN AMAZING SHIELD VERY UNIQUE,MUST BE FOX OR WOLF TAIL WHICH IS USED AS A TALISMAN,CHEERS