Rugi from Alor for comment

[Sajen]

Hello,

this Rugi I bought in Indonesia last summer. It is 81 cm inside the sheath with a blade from 50,5 cm which is crudely worked. Blade was heavy corroded.
What do you think? And have someone an estimated age for it?

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

No one?

[carlos]

hello!!
Beatiful piece! I have one very similar yours but with a very tin blade (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=rugi ) . Your blade semms good, to use. The decoration is good to me too.What do you think about blade? is thick ?
thanks in advance
carlos

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by carlos

hello!!
Beatiful piece! I have one very similar yours but with a very tin blade (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=rugi ) . Your blade semms good, to use. The decoration is good to me too.What do you think about blade? is thick ?
thanks in advance
carlos

Hi Carlos,

thank you very much for comment!! The blade of my one is also not very thick, only 4 mm. how thick is your one? And do you have cleaned the blade of your rugi? Someone told me that many blades of rugis are not so thick and locally made from coach springs which would date them (yours and mine) to the mid of last century.

Regards,

Detlef

[VVV]

Hi Detlef,

Sorry but I don't think it is very old, based on the motifs etc.


Michael

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by VVV

Hi Detlef,

Sorry but I don't think it is very old, based on the motifs etc.


Michael

Hi Michael,

my guess as well. Based upon the the thick smoke patina special at the sheath I would guess middle until second half last century. But it seems that it was used, for ceremonial purpose maybe? I know from a friend in Indonesia who coming from Alor that they still in use. He as well think that it is not very old.


Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

Additional note:

It seems that swords in Alor and Timor are kept near open fire. I have handled three very nice old Timor swords last summer in Indonesia with a very thick smoke patina. See attached pictures. The cord of the first shown picture was cured with the sheath.

[Gavin Nugent]

Hi Sajen,

I do not like passing disparaging comments on items but IMHO, none of these swords presented are very old, 1980s at best. I believe these to all be part of a cottage industry seen still today.
It seems every year in Bali, Borneo, Timor and Java there is a new type or a new region of interest to the people in the cottage industry to make up...

Gavin

[Sajen]

Hi Gav,

really no problem! But I haven't pay much for the rugi and the Timor swords I didn't buy by some reason. But I have to disagree for minimum the first two shown Timor swords since I have handled them. The blades are old cut down european blades and the handles are from horn which was very patinated and worn (see attached pictures). When this two swords are recent I don't want to be named collector anymore!! Please have a good look to the shown pictures, I am sure you will change your mind. Until horn will look like this it will need decades. The third Timor sword isn't old like the first two, handle was from wood, I would place it middle last century.
And by the rugi you may be correct, like before I would place it from middle to last half of last century. So we agree by this one.
But otherwise as you I am very sure that all shown swords was in use at one point of it's history. I can post close up pictures from the rugi as well where you can see patina, real patina, not managed to look old.
And I am sure by the source from where I have get it, he was very fair and direct told me that the rugi isn't very old.

Best regards,

Detlef

[Gavin Nugent]

Hi Detlef,

All part of the game the agree and disagree. Some people like Audi, I still think the Lexus is better for the money....well maybe not on wet European roads

Respectfully I disagree with the dirt covered items in the images being old. The thick covering of dirt and odd looking bristle like hair are my first concerns.

A passage associated with the subject.

"Wooden sculpture can be buried in soil, tied to an embankment, and thrown into a fast flowing river, broken, fed to insects, smoked, stained, dyed, burnt, waxed, oiled, polished, painted or even given to the dog to play with. Statues that have been buried are easy to spot, as soil will have penetrated into every hole and crevice, sculpture that has been knocking up and down in a river for a few months will look bleached, and contain sand and small pebbles. The last two methods are very popular with fake Dayak material."

Gav

[Sajen]

Here a horn handle from one of my badiks in comparison with the horn handle from one of the shown suriks. Artificially aged??

[Sajen]

Here the handle from my kampilan with the remains of the attached hair in comparison with one of the surik handles with the apparently same kind of hair, most proable goats hair. Odd looking? Maybe! But seems to be normal. Or is my kampilan a fake as well?

[Sajen]

And here at last a close up of the braided sheath from one of the suriks and the cut down european blade of the same surik. From where they have taken this old european blade to built up this "faked" surik?