Riau-Bugis Keris and Hilt?

ganjawulung · 9th October 2011, 09:16 AM

Really want to know, whether these are of Riau-Bugis kerises and hilts. The two hilts are of "gigi duyung" (dugong tusk) with certain sign of (according to one of my Bugis mentor) "temu ure" along the hilts. I can't even explain, what "temu ure" is, and what is the philosophy on the "ure" (or "urat" in Bahasa Indonesia)...

ganjawulung · 9th October 2011, 09:19 AM

Riau-Bugis kerises and hilts, with the warangka...

ganjawulung · 9th October 2011, 09:21 AM

And this is the overall view of the two blades...

GANJAWULUNG

ganjawulung · 9th October 2011, 09:30 AM

I saw quite similar examples on these kerises, when I reread this interesting thread on 2005. Please see example of Nr 15 and 19 pictures of BluErf's kerises... http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=bugis

Sajen · 9th October 2011, 07:41 PM

Hello Ganja,

this could be Peninsula keris as well, look here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=peninsula

The "temu ure" are the small black dots along a line which are normally typical for hippo ivory which I think to see at your both hilts as well so I think that it isn't ivory from dugong but from hippo.

Others with more knowledge than I am will be able to tell you more about the origin of this both nice keris. Do they have both a sarung? Can you post pictures when they are inside?

Regards,

Detlef

ganjawulung · 10th October 2011, 01:48 AM

Not changed yet, since acquired couple months ago... The "malela" one, has no warangka. I acquired it, just blade and hilt only...

ganjawulung · 10th October 2011, 01:49 AM

And the whole warangka with blade and hilt...

ganjawulung · 10th October 2011, 01:51 AM

And with another Sulawesi Bugis, newly acquired couple while ago...

ganjawulung · 10th October 2011, 03:41 AM

This newly acquired Bugis has no 'buntut'...

Sajen · 10th October 2011, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

And the whole warangka with blade and hilt...

Very nice keris in my opinion. The wood seems to have a nice grain but not good to seen under the dark paint. Do you have thought about to give it a new appearance? Look for example in the thread I have given before.

Regards,

Detlef

Laowang · 10th October 2011, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Very nice keris in my opinion. The wood seems to have a nice grain but not good to seen under the dark paint. Do you have thought about to give it a new appearance? Look for example in the thread I have given before.

Regards,

Detlef

I've been told by Adni of the Malay Art Gallery that the wood wrangkas of Sulawesi keris were often traditionally stained dark. I would advise against removing the stain, unless you are certain it was a change made to the wrangka outside of the original culture.

A. G. Maisey · 11th October 2011, 12:26 AM

Malay and Bugis keris are a bit outside my special area of knowledge, but I have owned a lot of them during my life.

I have noted that sometimes they have been varnished with black varnish, not paint, but a type of varnish that gives a very dark, or black finish.

Others I have had have had a normal brown varnish, but age and neglect had turned this varnish very dark to the point of almost black; these have been brought back to a good finish by polishing with car polish broken down with gum turpentine.

ganjawulung · 11th October 2011, 03:44 AM

@Detlef, thanks. Recently, I have a new "habitude": heavy-hearted to change the 'original' warangka condition, and let the keris' warangka as it is. Or, change totally with new warangka, and let the 'original' warangka stay as it is... So still no decision on this very black (the Sulawesi Bugis) one. But the first blackish one, I think the former owner had once removed the original black-stained varnish...
@Laowang, thanks for reminding me not to change immediately this blackish stained Bugis warangka. Cleaning it, maybe the best way, or change totally with new warangka, and keep the older warangka as it is...
@Alan, thanks also for the tips. It would be very useful for me to try some practical way to maintain my kerises cleaned. I have some practical way too, to use similar items such as car polish (we call it in Jawa, 'kompon', in green plastic cup, or white plastic for the soft one) to keep warangkas cleaned...

A. G. Maisey · 11th October 2011, 08:49 AM

Jimmy, I wouldn't use the car polish approach on everything, only on a piece of wood that has got really dirty deteriorated old varnish on it.

Fine quality furniture oils and waxes are possibly the best thing to maintain an already OK finish with. I grew up surrounded by and working with fine furniture, and I always think of keris dress in the same way as I do any other finely finished piece of wood. The medium you choose to maintain the finish should be selected in accord with the nature of the finish itself. One product does not suit everything.

Prevention is the best medicine, so it is really advisable to not store the keris in the wrongko, but rather in a plastic sleeve, and to store the wrongko in a singap, and the singap in a cupboard or drawer.

ganjawulung · 11th October 2011, 01:04 PM

I use car polish -- not the soft one -- specially for new warangka, in order to make the new varnish not to shiny. Then, use soft cloth. The new varnish will not look too glossy any more..

For old warangkas, usually I only use soft cloth to clean them...

A. G. Maisey · 11th October 2011, 01:41 PM

Yes, if that is your preference, it will give the result you want, however, ask yourself if you would use no more than a soft cloth on a fine piano, or a fine piece of antique furniture with a french polish.

You might find that rotten stone will be kinder to a Javanese finish than car polish; in Jawa the layers of polish are intentionally kept thin, in order to permit the grain to be seen better --- there is nothing like the traditional piano finish in Jawa. This means that unless one is extremely careful it is quite easy to cut through the usual Javanese polish. The rotten stone I mentioned is something that was used by traditional polishers in the past, I think that these days when a polisher wants a matt finish, he will usually opt for 0000 steel wool, very lightly brushed in one direction with the grain, and most often used damp with a little soap.

Furniture oils such as Sheraton, and furniture waxes such as Antiquax have been formulated to protect and preserve the finish on fine furniture. I personally feel that a finely polished warangka deserves at least the same consideration.

However, we all have our own preferences.

A quick , easy way to refinish an old warangka is to use Danish oil, or a gunstock finish like Birchwood Casey Trueoil. The use of these types of finish requires virtually no skill at all, and it is easy to produce any level of gloss that you wish.

ganjawulung · 11th October 2011, 04:32 PM

There is also, a 'traditional way' in Jawa, using "watu ijo" (green stone), crush the green stone, and use it to make nikel blade or alloy more shiny. I am used to use it to make my certain motor part more shiny... Is it useful too for maintaining certain keris part more shiny?

A. G. Maisey · 11th October 2011, 11:18 PM

I do not know the green stone, and have never seen it used.

I've been quite close to a couple of tukang wrongko, one in particular was a good friend for more than ten years before he went to Jakarta, changed the direction of his employment, and finally disappeared. This gentleman used to use a couple of different kinds of leaves to bring down gloss.

Another extremely talented maker I currently know uses whatever comes to hand to achieve whatever result he wants. This fellow is the current generation of a long line of m'ranggis, and he does incredibly good work when you can convince him to work instead of going fishing, but some of things I've seen him do, absolutely defy tradition.

My personal taste in a matt finish is to use burnishing, but of course, you can't use this with all materials.Ideal for ebony, less than good for timoho.

But maybe this green stone is only used for metal?

I much prefer to use the standard western approach for metal polishing.

9th October 2011, 09:16 AM	#1
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Riau-Bugis Keris and Hilt? Really want to know, whether these are of Riau-Bugis kerises and hilts. The two hilts are of "gigi duyung" (dugong tusk) with certain sign of (according to one of my Bugis mentor) "temu ure" along the hilts. I can't even explain, what "temu ure" is, and what is the philosophy on the "ure" (or "urat" in Bahasa Indonesia)... Attached Images

9th October 2011, 09:19 AM	#2
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	With Sheath.. Riau-Bugis kerises and hilts, with the warangka... Attached Images

9th October 2011, 09:21 AM	#3
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Overall View of the Two Blades... And this is the overall view of the two blades... GANJAWULUNG Attached Images

9th October 2011, 09:30 AM	#4
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Similar Examples I saw quite similar examples on these kerises, when I reread this interesting thread on 2005. Please see example of Nr 15 and 19 pictures of BluErf's kerises... http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=bugis

10th October 2011, 01:48 AM	#6
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Not changed yet, since acquired couple months ago... The "malela" one, has no warangka. I acquired it, just blade and hilt only... Attached Images

9th October 2011, 07:41 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Hello Ganja, this could be Peninsula keris as well, look here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=peninsula The "temu ure" are the small black dots along a line which are normally typical for hippo ivory which I think to see at your both hilts as well so I think that it isn't ivory from dugong but from hippo. Others with more knowledge than I am will be able to tell you more about the origin of this both nice keris. Do they have both a sarung? Can you post pictures when they are inside? Regards, Detlef

10th October 2011, 01:49 AM	#7
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	And the whole warangka with blade and hilt... Attached Images

10th October 2011, 01:51 AM	#8
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	And with another Sulawesi Bugis, newly acquired couple while ago... Attached Images

10th October 2011, 03:41 AM	#9
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	This newly acquired Bugis has no 'buntut'... Attached Images

11th October 2011, 12:26 AM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	Malay and Bugis keris are a bit outside my special area of knowledge, but I have owned a lot of them during my life. I have noted that sometimes they have been varnished with black varnish, not paint, but a type of varnish that gives a very dark, or black finish. Others I have had have had a normal brown varnish, but age and neglect had turned this varnish very dark to the point of almost black; these have been brought back to a good finish by polishing with car polish broken down with gum turpentine.

11th October 2011, 03:44 AM	#13
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	@Detlef, thanks. Recently, I have a new "habitude": heavy-hearted to change the 'original' warangka condition, and let the keris' warangka as it is. Or, change totally with new warangka, and let the 'original' warangka stay as it is... So still no decision on this very black (the Sulawesi Bugis) one. But the first blackish one, I think the former owner had once removed the original black-stained varnish... @Laowang, thanks for reminding me not to change immediately this blackish stained Bugis warangka. Cleaning it, maybe the best way, or change totally with new warangka, and keep the older warangka as it is... @Alan, thanks also for the tips. It would be very useful for me to try some practical way to maintain my kerises cleaned. I have some practical way too, to use similar items such as car polish (we call it in Jawa, 'kompon', in green plastic cup, or white plastic for the soft one) to keep warangkas cleaned...

11th October 2011, 08:49 AM	#14
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	Jimmy, I wouldn't use the car polish approach on everything, only on a piece of wood that has got really dirty deteriorated old varnish on it. Fine quality furniture oils and waxes are possibly the best thing to maintain an already OK finish with. I grew up surrounded by and working with fine furniture, and I always think of keris dress in the same way as I do any other finely finished piece of wood. The medium you choose to maintain the finish should be selected in accord with the nature of the finish itself. One product does not suit everything. Prevention is the best medicine, so it is really advisable to not store the keris in the wrongko, but rather in a plastic sleeve, and to store the wrongko in a singap, and the singap in a cupboard or drawer.

11th October 2011, 01:04 PM	#15
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	I use car polish -- not the soft one -- specially for new warangka, in order to make the new varnish not to shiny. Then, use soft cloth. The new varnish will not look too glossy any more.. For old warangkas, usually I only use soft cloth to clean them...

11th October 2011, 01:41 PM	#16
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	Yes, if that is your preference, it will give the result you want, however, ask yourself if you would use no more than a soft cloth on a fine piano, or a fine piece of antique furniture with a french polish. You might find that rotten stone will be kinder to a Javanese finish than car polish; in Jawa the layers of polish are intentionally kept thin, in order to permit the grain to be seen better --- there is nothing like the traditional piano finish in Jawa. This means that unless one is extremely careful it is quite easy to cut through the usual Javanese polish. The rotten stone I mentioned is something that was used by traditional polishers in the past, I think that these days when a polisher wants a matt finish, he will usually opt for 0000 steel wool, very lightly brushed in one direction with the grain, and most often used damp with a little soap. Furniture oils such as Sheraton, and furniture waxes such as Antiquax have been formulated to protect and preserve the finish on fine furniture. I personally feel that a finely polished warangka deserves at least the same consideration. However, we all have our own preferences. A quick , easy way to refinish an old warangka is to use Danish oil, or a gunstock finish like Birchwood Casey Trueoil. The use of these types of finish requires virtually no skill at all, and it is easy to produce any level of gloss that you wish.

11th October 2011, 04:32 PM	#17
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	There is also, a 'traditional way' in Jawa, using "watu ijo" (green stone), crush the green stone, and use it to make nikel blade or alloy more shiny. I am used to use it to make my certain motor part more shiny... Is it useful too for maintaining certain keris part more shiny?

11th October 2011, 11:18 PM	#18
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	I do not know the green stone, and have never seen it used. I've been quite close to a couple of tukang wrongko, one in particular was a good friend for more than ten years before he went to Jakarta, changed the direction of his employment, and finally disappeared. This gentleman used to use a couple of different kinds of leaves to bring down gloss. Another extremely talented maker I currently know uses whatever comes to hand to achieve whatever result he wants. This fellow is the current generation of a long line of m'ranggis, and he does incredibly good work when you can convince him to work instead of going fishing, but some of things I've seen him do, absolutely defy tradition. My personal taste in a matt finish is to use burnishing, but of course, you can't use this with all materials.Ideal for ebony, less than good for timoho. But maybe this green stone is only used for metal? I much prefer to use the standard western approach for metal polishing.