Weapon Design Project

[son of oaf]

hi

long time reader, first time poster..

I am a student of Filipino martial arts.
I've been lucky enough to train with a few really great people, one of whom makes custom aluminium training blades.
We always endeavor to try and train the techniques we learn with a variety of weapons. My colleague is pretty skilled at crafting the aluminium blades and we have had great success in making and training with a few designs from books and internet resources as well as creations based on live blades.

we have a few custom shields, a kampilan, several varieties of barong and bolo as well as numerous knives, kerambits etc.

we are really interested in expanding our collection, learning more about what's out there and learning more about the origins of the art we train in.
we are keen enthusiasts but our knowledge is pretty limited.

is there anyone out there who might be interested in a little online collaboration?
you guys and gals really know your stuff and i feel we could learn a lot from you.
i could post images of the weapons that are created and let you know about all the successes and failures in our little experiment.
i feel there might be a great opportunity for us to have a bit of fun, try and make some great training tools and learn lots of neat stuff while networking.

i've been really impressed by the open and friendly attitudes on this forum (as i said i've been a viewer of a wee while now) and the collected knowledge on this site must be immense.

anyone up for a jam session?

thanks for your time

[son of oaf]

nobody?

[Rick]

Patience , this place gets slow on the weekends .

[Tim Simmons]

I would very much like to see old examples of the famous fighting sticks.

[Battara]

I'd be interested and curious. Bring them on!

[VANDOO]

WELCOME! I WOULD ALSO BE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT YOU HAVE PRODUCED SO FAR. IT WOULD ALSO GIVE US AN IDEA AS TO WHAT SORTS OF WEAPONS YOU FAVOR MOST. I AM SURE YOU CAN GET SOME IDEAS FROM THE MEMBERS ONCE THE BALL GETS ROLLING. BUT ALUMINUM BLADES DOES KIND OF FREAK OUT US PURIST'S

[son of oaf]

LOL

i'll get some photos sorted asap.
The aluminium blades give us a chance to train the techniques and try stuff out with something that will at least be the same shape as a traditional weapon (if not the right weight, balance etc).
although elements of what we do is stick based, there are also other aspects that are "from the blade" and this gives us an opportunity to have a play and learn a bit more.

The other interesting thing is that because many of these are custom jobs for individuals there are a lot of strange variations appearing.
preferences in terms of grip, size of blade etc as well as bizarre custom requests have led to a few crazy hybrids.

i know one guy who has even replaced a barong handle with a custom knuckle duster!

i'm sure for some that's practically blasphemy!
but it's interesting to see a continuing evolution y'know? people are still trying stuff and seeing what happens. for me that's pretty exciting.

personally, for me the really cool thing is that we can try drills etc with a variety of weapons. double barong vs. kampilan. staff and shield. whip and dagger. bolo vs. barong etc.

i'd love to get to train with axes, panabas, some different types of shields. and i'm positive there is so much more out there i've probably never even heard of!

if anyone was interested in seeing a training version of a weapon in their collection, i'm sure my buddy would be interested in making some testers (with the help of reference images and sizes).
we could even take some training photos and let you know how we got on.
it could be lots of fun.

in the meantime, i'll take some photos and get back to you.

thanks for your time guys..

all the best

[Battara]

The only concern I have about aluminum is that it is lighter than steel. But it does make it easier to wield and thus a little flashier for demos. Since I don't own any aluminum pieces, I had to use 2 of my antique kris for a weapons demo at 2 events. Very sharp! (accidently cut my pants on the first one when I had carpel tunnel syndrome in one hand! ).

[son of oaf]

whooops!
sounds like a lucky escape!

fair play to you though for demo-ing with live blades!

the gym that a train at doesn't enter comps or do demo stuff etc. and i myself would only ever class myself as an enthusiastic amateur (i've only been training a couple of years).
The training blades are only for training and (in very few cases), sparring drills

the aluminium weapons were only originally used in knife classes, but as time has gone on (and more people own training blades) sword applications etc have become a part of the classes.
we have always been taught how and when to treat the rattan stick as a sword etc. but now we can actually substitute it for a training blade which is great.

of course it can't really substitute the real thing, but it is great for range, angle recognition, co-ordination and edge awareness.

it has really brought another aspect of FMA alive for me.

thanks for the feedback and info. it's all really interesting.

i will get those photos!

[Battara]

Just for clarification, I am a professional amatuer. I did the routine to indiginous PI music. Fun and flashy (and apparently dangerous ).

[son of oaf]

okay..(hopefully) here is a pic of one of the training blades.

simple barong with rounded edges for safety, mirror finished with a fake edge.

a second version of this design was made with a para-cord wrap handle, no polish and no fake edge, purely for harder training. it's took a bit of a battering but served me well for a good six months now.

the designs we have so far are pretty simple, taken from live blades or books.

anyone interested in this collaboration idea?
i can run designs past my mate, we'll pick a few and make them. keep you all posted on progress, training etc. should be a hoot...

thanks again for your time guys

[Battara]

That is really nice and unique - using the older blade form of the barung. I like it. Looks right in proportions too.

[VANDOO]

THE BARONG IS CERTINALY MORE ATTRACTIVE FOR A DEMONSTRATION THAN A WOODEN OR RUBBER KNIFE. THE BALANCE OF COURSE WOULD BE LIGHT AS FAR AS THE BLADE GOES BUT THE NICE WOODEN HANDLE WOULD GIVE A GRIP LIKE THE REAL WEAPON WHICH THE WEBBING GRIP WOULD NOT DUPLICATE AS WELL. THEY SHOULD WORK WELL FOR DEMONSTRATION AND TRAINING AND BE FLASHY TO WATCH, AS LONG AS THEY DON'T MAKE A NOISE LIKE A ALUMINUM BASEBALL BAT ON CONTACT

I THINK I WOULD TRY AND MAKE A SET OF THE BASIC FORMS OF MORO WEAPONS FIRST KEEPING IT SIMPLE AS YOU HAVE WITH THE BARONG. FOR TRAINING PURPOSES THE BASIC FORMS WILL PROBABLY BE ENOUGH BUT A FEW MODIFIED TYPES MIGHT BE USED FOR DEMONSTRATIONS. THERE ARE MANY OTHER VARIATIONS OF THE FORMS AS WELL AS TYPES THAT HAVE BEEN INFLUENCED BY SOCIETYS FROM OUTSIDE THE PHILIPPINES. YOU MENTIONED A CUSTOM ORDER OF A PHILIPPINE KNIFE WITH A BUILT IN KNUCKLE DUSTER. I HAVE AN OLD EXAMPLE OF THAT TYPE SO ODD CUSTOM WEAPONS HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME. I WILL LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING WHAT YOU COME UP WITH.

[son of oaf]

hi

thanks for the feedback guys. i'm sure my buddy (bri) will be over the moon with all the compliments.
currently there are maybe three or four diferent types of barong, a couple of basic bolos, a kampilan and a few small knives, daggers and kerambits in the collection.

excellent re: "knuckle duster barong"..that's really cool! there's just nothing people haven't already tried is there!? i'd love to see a pic!

the mirror finished ones could pass muster for a demo, but we don't ever do them. i know some people just want a mirror polish on their trainers 'cos it looks good. others buy them and hang them on their wall!

we also have simpler, non polished corded versions that are more like the standard training blades for actually bashing together, sparing drills and work on the tyres etc.
i'll put up a pitcture when i bring one back from the gym.

so...anyone got any items in their collections that they would like to see training blade versions of?
i don't know what the best policy is here..i don't want to hassle people with stuff i like the look of..i'd love for it to be more of a collaboration thing..
anything and everything is of interest, completely different weapons, handles, blade shapes etc...
whaddya think?


just out of interest: here's a pic of a custom sword (one of a pair) made for a girl who does krabi krabong. bri ended up using a banister rail for the handles (still split with an aluminium core like the barong) and we got custom leather wraps made for the grips). bri is currently working on a more authentic handle for a second set.

cheers

[son of oaf]

hi,

sorry VANDOO.. i meant to reply a section of your post and forgot.
you suggested that we started with a basic set of moro weapons.
what did you have in mind?
please don't be afraid of offending me...assume i'm REALLY ignorant you won't go far wrong.

i'd love to hear your ideas.

if you (or anyone) would rather pm or email me, please feel free.

i'm up for any suggestions or ideas, feedback or abuse!

thanks

[katana]

Hi, Son of Oaf......you may find this interesting....

http://www.rsw.com.hk/activities.htm

[son of oaf]

thanks katana

fascinating stuff.
i hadn't come across this before.
i'm off to re-read in more depth
groovy

thanks again

[son of oaf]

hi again..

just in case of any curiosity.
we took some more photos of other training blades that have been made up. i won't post all of them but here are a couple for you to look at.

the kampilan had been in the wars a bit
we tidied it up with a file but you can still see some dents!
this is the only one that bri has made so far...

the kerambit is one of a few variations made. so far it hasn't had a handle fitted.

i'd love to hear your thoughts..


thanks

andy

[VANDOO]

THE KAMPILLIAN LOOKS LIKE IT MAY BE MORE THE LEGNTH OF THE TIBOLI SWORDS THAN THE MORO KAMPILIAN. THE MORO KAMPILIAN IS A VERY LONG SWORD WHICH WOULD BE QUITE A BIT DIFFERENT THAN USING THE SHORTER TIBOLI/BAGABO SIZE WHICH IS ABOUT THE SIZE OF SOME DAYAK MANDAU. OTHER THAN THAT THEY LOOK LIKE THEY WOULD WORK WELL FOR PRACICE. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIND SOME GOOD INFORMATION ON KAMPILIAN SIZES AND STYLE BY SEARCHING THE ARCHIVES.
I FINALLY TOOK SOME PICTURES OF THE SWORD WITH THE BUILT IN KNUCKLE DUSTER I THINK IT WOULD BE CLASSIFIED AS A SANSABAR. THERE IS INFORMATION ON THEM IN AN OLD POST BY ROBERT COLEMAN "LONG PHILIPPINE SWORDS" ON 11/30/2005 THERE WAS ALSO A LINK
http://www.cebueskrima.s5.com/photo5.html IT HAS A SITE WITH SOME HISTORY AND PICTURES OF THE TYPE THERE IS SOME SIMULARITY TO MY EXAMPLE IN THE HILTS BUT NOT A COMPLETE GAURD. I SUSPECT MINE MAY BE A EARLIER TYPE FROM THE SAME AREA.
THE SIZE OF MY EXAMPLE IS 31.5 IN LONG IN SCABBARD, HANDLE 6 INCH, BLADE 25 AND 5 EIGHTS IN. L. THE HANDLE IS MADE OF BUFFALOW HORN, I HAVE HAD THE SWORD FOR 10 YEARS AND IT DIDN'T LOOK LIKE IT WAS NEWLY MADE WHEN I GOT IT BUT NOT REAL OLD EITHER.

[son of oaf]

wow!
that is really cool.
thanks for showing me the pics.
i'll follow that link now..

thanks for all the feedback and encouragement

Andy