Did I buy a Rencong?

Ferguson · 5th March 2005, 01:28 AM

Hello All,
Just received this knife today. Looks like an Acehenese Rencong to me. Blade seems to be hand forged monosteel of good quality. Scabbard and hilt are brass with a silver wash. Craftsmanship is pretty good. I'll try to get better pictures this weekend. Any comments or information are very welcome. The completed auction is here.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWN:IT

Thanks!

Steve Ferguson

Alam Shah · 5th March 2005, 02:03 AM

It's sure is an Acehese Rencong. I am looking for one myself.
Due to 'inacurate' description, eBay search result did not find your item. Lucky you. Average piece, though

.

Ferguson · 5th March 2005, 05:36 PM

Some (hopefully) better pictures. If it's just an average piece, it doesn't hurt my feelings. I like it anyway.

Steve

Conogre · 5th March 2005, 10:17 PM

I'd have to say it looks a little better than an "average piece" unless one is fortunate enough to be able to afford the gold and ivory types, which not all of us are.
The tooling looks to be very well done with a better than average blade....for my money, I'd say that you did very well.
Mike

Alam Shah · 6th March 2005, 04:06 AM

Errr..I take it back. Beautiful piece.
The eBay pics do not do justice to your piece.
Your pictures, however, are opinion-changing. Beautiful piece.

Lucky you...good bargain.

Battara · 6th March 2005, 01:21 PM

Alam Shah - good point on eBay pics - usually not as helpful as one would wish. I would wonder if the piece is silver or silver plated brass now that I see better pictures.

Ferguson · 6th March 2005, 02:39 PM

Thank you gentlemen,
It's definitly brass. Someone has cleaned to vigorously and worn through in spots.

Steve

Alam Shah · 6th March 2005, 05:36 PM

My 'average piece' rencong.

Conogre · 6th March 2005, 06:06 PM

If I offended anyone or ruffeled feathers, I apologize, as that was not my intent.
The high end, royalty pieces are indeed beautiful treasures, the only difficulty being that sometimes it's difficult not to "oooh" and "ahhhh" (even though that's just exactly what we are doing , at least I am, and not without a certain amount of envy, I might ad)about and truly not be able to contribute anything worthwhile.
For those who DO have such pieces, my only request is that when you post a photo, tell us (or me **grin**) all that you can about it....while I may envy the owner, that doesn't mean I'm not appreciative of being able to view it and when possible, learn all that I can....I certainly don't begrudge him the good fortune.
A fellow forum member brought some of the most magnificent keris that I've ever seen to my home and I'll be forever thankful, as it was a once in a lifetime experience.....as my then wife put it, it was one of the few times she'd seen me speechless.
For lesser pieces, don't be discoraged there either, for, just as in an army, there are generals and there are footsoldiers, with most of the true weapons coming from the later category.
It would be nice if the wars were fought by JUST the generals, but I don't see that happening any time soon.
In some societies, a blade grows with its owner, with it not unusual for a medioce blade to be dressed far in excess of what one would think it deserved, while in others only the very best blades will sport true finery and perhaps never have been used at all, for anything.
In my humble opinion, they ALL are to be admired (I've TRIED to make a blade.....what a sad ending for a piece of steel) for what went into making it, and often, what transpired, possibly because of it, afterwards.
Mike

Ferguson · 6th March 2005, 07:49 PM

Alam Shah, that is a beautiful piece. I much prefer wood and horn for most pieces. Thank you for sharing it with us.

Conogre, I doubt anyone took offense. We're all friends here.

Here is an interesting article I found while searching for information on this dagger.
http://www.cimande.com/writings/other/rencong.htm

Steve

Alam Shah · 7th March 2005, 12:48 AM

Conogre,
As Ferguson mentioned, we're all friends here. No offense taken.
There's many good quality keris pieces in the thread below. Have a look.
We can alway learn something here.

Ferguson, For a gold-hilted 'general' piece. See this thread.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=331

Ferguson · 7th March 2005, 02:03 AM

Alam Shah, That is beautiful. I like this one too.
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000752.html (near the bottom of the thread)

Steve

Conogre · 7th March 2005, 02:53 AM

A couple of questions, if I may...does anyone know if these go through yearly ritual cleanings in Aceh, as in keris?
Second, in following the threads above, I noticed the phrase ".....given to visitors of the capital..."
Does this mean sold as tourist items or given as treasured gifts of rememberance to valued friends, such as are the small wing hilted knives on the Isle of Cete?
I have two, a very old ivory hilted piece with the blade nearly disintegrated from age and a second that looks to be only months old and yet still made with some care, although definitely an average piece or below.
Mike

Alam Shah · 7th March 2005, 03:07 AM

Ferguson, that's an excellent piece....drool.

(we have similar taste...)

Alam Shah · 7th March 2005, 03:15 AM

Conorge, that's a very nice old piece you have there...drool.

Any idea how old is it? The blade material look like those of keris.
A close up picture of the blade would be nice.

Where's the other picture...?

drdavid · 1st May 2006, 06:58 AM

Am just waiting on a Rencong I recently purchased and was wondering how the heck does one hold a rencong. It looks a little awkward with the handle shape. Anyone have a photo that might help my mental contortions
cheers
DrD

Alam Shah · 1st May 2006, 07:12 AM

The link point to an article, how to handle a rencong.

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

In my gallery (pg. 2), there are a few rencongs for viewing as well.

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...bum.php&page=2

Enjoy.

A. G. Maisey · 2nd May 2006, 05:57 AM

I present the following for consideration:-

Draeger:- "Weapons and Fighting Arts of the Indonesian Archipelago"

"---The rentjong is employed according to its length, which varies from about five to twenty inches. The shorter lengths are highly favoured because they can be easily concealed.The rencong is worn sheathed at the left hand side of the bearer. It is usually drawn with the left foot forward so that by a quick, short step forward with the right foot the thrust of the knife recieves added impetus. The blade is withdrawn from its sheath, cutting edge towards the enemy. It is then whipped to the right by a snap of the hand which brings the palm upward; the elbow is held fairly close to the body. The thrust is made by extending the right arm almost to full extension and turning the palm downward just prior to penetration of the target. Vital areas include the abdominal cavity, the groin, the throat, and the kidney regions."

Martosedono:- "Mengenal Senjata Tradisional Kita" ( know our traditional weapons)

"Jadi Reuncong Meucegok adalah Reuncong yang tangkainya melengkung, yakni suatu alat penikam paling ampuh ---"

Martosedono makes several references to the rencong being a stabbing weapon.

Harsrinuksmo:- "Ensiklopedi Keris"

"Dalam pertempuran jarak dekat, rencong cukup andal digunakan sebagai senjata tikam" ( In close combat the rencong is adequate for use as a stabbing weapon).

Note photograph of King Ubit, West Sumatra, seated, handle of rencong pointed up.

Note photograph of Achenese freedom fighter, third quarter of 19th century, standing, handle of rencong pointing down.

A handle with the 90 degree extension pointing down while seated would possibly be a little uncomfortable.
Or perhaps this is a dress convention:- by placing the handle in a position where the rencong cannot be drawn and used it may signify peaceful intention by the wearer. Similar conventions exist with the position in which a keris is worn in Jawa.
The handle must have the 90 degree extension of the handle pointing down---as in the photo of the freedom fighter--- if it is to be drawn and used to thrust.
With the 90 degree extension of the handle pointing up, the rencong can only be drawn and used to slash, and it is not a weapon designed, or intended, for slashing.

I claim no expertise or special knowledge in the field of the rencong, I am merely passing on information that is in my possession.

Andrew · 2nd May 2006, 06:15 AM

Welcome, A.G. Excellent information, thank you for sharing. It's really nice to see you here.

drdavid · 2nd May 2006, 09:50 AM

I received my Rencong so here it is. I have to say I think it is the nicest thing in my collection at this stage. The blade is 18 cm (7") and overall length about 30cm (12"). Well made and the patina on the ivory is developing nicely. It would certainly inflict a nasty slashing cut but if used as a stabbing ripping weapon (as described in A.G.s post) I think it would be much more damaging. Sorry about the quality of the images, no natural light around right now.
DrD

5th March 2005, 01:28 AM	#1
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Did I buy a Rencong? Hello All, Just received this knife today. Looks like an Acehenese Rencong to me. Blade seems to be hand forged monosteel of good quality. Scabbard and hilt are brass with a silver wash. Craftsmanship is pretty good. I'll try to get better pictures this weekend. Any comments or information are very welcome. The completed auction is here. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWN:IT Thanks! Steve Ferguson

5th March 2005, 02:03 AM	#2
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	It's sure is an Acehese Rencong. I am looking for one myself. Due to 'inacurate' description, eBay search result did not find your item. Lucky you. Average piece, though . Last edited by Alam Shah; 5th March 2005 at 02:55 PM.

6th March 2005, 05:36 PM	#8
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	My 'average piece' rencong. Attached Images

7th March 2005, 02:53 AM	#13
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	A couple of questions, if I may...does anyone know if these go through yearly ritual cleanings in Aceh, as in keris? Second, in following the threads above, I noticed the phrase ".....given to visitors of the capital..." Does this mean sold as tourist items or given as treasured gifts of rememberance to valued friends, such as are the small wing hilted knives on the Isle of Cete? I have two, a very old ivory hilted piece with the blade nearly disintegrated from age and a second that looks to be only months old and yet still made with some care, although definitely an average piece or below. Mike Attached Images

7th March 2005, 03:07 AM	#14
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Ferguson, that's an excellent piece....drool. (we have similar taste...) Last edited by Alam Shah; 7th March 2005 at 04:35 AM.

5th March 2005, 05:36 PM	#3
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Some (hopefully) better pictures. If it's just an average piece, it doesn't hurt my feelings. I like it anyway. Steve

5th March 2005, 10:17 PM	#4
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	I'd have to say it looks a little better than an "average piece" unless one is fortunate enough to be able to afford the gold and ivory types, which not all of us are. The tooling looks to be very well done with a better than average blade....for my money, I'd say that you did very well. Mike

6th March 2005, 04:06 AM	#5
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Errr..I take it back. Beautiful piece. The eBay pics do not do justice to your piece. Your pictures, however, are opinion-changing. Beautiful piece. Lucky you...good bargain.

6th March 2005, 01:21 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Alam Shah - good point on eBay pics - usually not as helpful as one would wish. I would wonder if the piece is silver or silver plated brass now that I see better pictures.

6th March 2005, 02:39 PM	#7
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Thank you gentlemen, It's definitly brass. Someone has cleaned to vigorously and worn through in spots. Steve

6th March 2005, 06:06 PM	#9
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	If I offended anyone or ruffeled feathers, I apologize, as that was not my intent. The high end, royalty pieces are indeed beautiful treasures, the only difficulty being that sometimes it's difficult not to "oooh" and "ahhhh" (even though that's just exactly what we are doing , at least I am, and not without a certain amount of envy, I might ad)about and truly not be able to contribute anything worthwhile. For those who DO have such pieces, my only request is that when you post a photo, tell us (or me grin) all that you can about it....while I may envy the owner, that doesn't mean I'm not appreciative of being able to view it and when possible, learn all that I can....I certainly don't begrudge him the good fortune. A fellow forum member brought some of the most magnificent keris that I've ever seen to my home and I'll be forever thankful, as it was a once in a lifetime experience.....as my then wife put it, it was one of the few times she'd seen me speechless. For lesser pieces, don't be discoraged there either, for, just as in an army, there are generals and there are footsoldiers, with most of the true weapons coming from the later category. It would be nice if the wars were fought by JUST the generals, but I don't see that happening any time soon. In some societies, a blade grows with its owner, with it not unusual for a medioce blade to be dressed far in excess of what one would think it deserved, while in others only the very best blades will sport true finery and perhaps never have been used at all, for anything. In my humble opinion, they ALL are to be admired (I've TRIED to make a blade.....what a sad ending for a piece of steel) for what went into making it, and often, what transpired, possibly because of it, afterwards. Mike

6th March 2005, 07:49 PM	#10
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Alam Shah, that is a beautiful piece. I much prefer wood and horn for most pieces. Thank you for sharing it with us. Conogre, I doubt anyone took offense. We're all friends here. Here is an interesting article I found while searching for information on this dagger. http://www.cimande.com/writings/other/rencong.htm Steve

7th March 2005, 12:48 AM	#11
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Conogre, As Ferguson mentioned, we're all friends here. No offense taken. There's many good quality keris pieces in the thread below. Have a look. We can alway learn something here. Ferguson, For a gold-hilted 'general' piece. See this thread. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=331

7th March 2005, 02:03 AM	#12
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Alam Shah, That is beautiful. I like this one too. http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000752.html (near the bottom of the thread) Steve

7th March 2005, 03:15 AM	#15
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Conorge, that's a very nice old piece you have there...drool. Any idea how old is it? The blade material look like those of keris. A close up picture of the blade would be nice. Where's the other picture...? Last edited by Alam Shah; 7th March 2005 at 04:26 AM.

1st May 2006, 06:58 AM	#16
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 371	Am just waiting on a Rencong I recently purchased and was wondering how the heck does one hold a rencong. It looks a little awkward with the handle shape. Anyone have a photo that might help my mental contortions cheers DrD

1st May 2006, 07:12 AM	#17
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	article on how to handle a rencong. The link point to an article, how to handle a rencong. http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php In my gallery (pg. 2), there are a few rencongs for viewing as well. http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...bum.php&page=2 Enjoy. Last edited by Alam Shah; 1st May 2006 at 08:09 AM. Reason: added links...

2nd May 2006, 05:57 AM	#18
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	I present the following for consideration:- Draeger:- "Weapons and Fighting Arts of the Indonesian Archipelago" "---The rentjong is employed according to its length, which varies from about five to twenty inches. The shorter lengths are highly favoured because they can be easily concealed.The rencong is worn sheathed at the left hand side of the bearer. It is usually drawn with the left foot forward so that by a quick, short step forward with the right foot the thrust of the knife recieves added impetus. The blade is withdrawn from its sheath, cutting edge towards the enemy. It is then whipped to the right by a snap of the hand which brings the palm upward; the elbow is held fairly close to the body. The thrust is made by extending the right arm almost to full extension and turning the palm downward just prior to penetration of the target. Vital areas include the abdominal cavity, the groin, the throat, and the kidney regions." Martosedono:- "Mengenal Senjata Tradisional Kita" ( know our traditional weapons) "Jadi Reuncong Meucegok adalah Reuncong yang tangkainya melengkung, yakni suatu alat penikam paling ampuh ---" Martosedono makes several references to the rencong being a stabbing weapon. Harsrinuksmo:- "Ensiklopedi Keris" "Dalam pertempuran jarak dekat, rencong cukup andal digunakan sebagai senjata tikam" ( In close combat the rencong is adequate for use as a stabbing weapon). Note photograph of King Ubit, West Sumatra, seated, handle of rencong pointed up. Note photograph of Achenese freedom fighter, third quarter of 19th century, standing, handle of rencong pointing down. A handle with the 90 degree extension pointing down while seated would possibly be a little uncomfortable. Or perhaps this is a dress convention:- by placing the handle in a position where the rencong cannot be drawn and used it may signify peaceful intention by the wearer. Similar conventions exist with the position in which a keris is worn in Jawa. The handle must have the 90 degree extension of the handle pointing down---as in the photo of the freedom fighter--- if it is to be drawn and used to thrust. With the 90 degree extension of the handle pointing up, the rencong can only be drawn and used to slash, and it is not a weapon designed, or intended, for slashing. I claim no expertise or special knowledge in the field of the rencong, I am merely passing on information that is in my possession. Attached Images

2nd May 2006, 06:15 AM	#19
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Welcome, A.G. Excellent information, thank you for sharing. It's really nice to see you here.

2nd May 2006, 09:50 AM	#20
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 371	I received my Rencong so here it is. I have to say I think it is the nicest thing in my collection at this stage. The blade is 18 cm (7") and overall length about 30cm (12"). Well made and the patina on the ivory is developing nicely. It would certainly inflict a nasty slashing cut but if used as a stabbing ripping weapon (as described in A.G.s post) I think it would be much more damaging. Sorry about the quality of the images, no natural light around right now. DrD Attached Images