Best sources for seeing,handling & purchasing Keris ?

Boswego · 4th February 2005, 06:26 PM

I'm new to the world of Keris.I live in Portland,OR and wonder if anyone might have tips on good sources on learning more and collecting Keris.I've been a Collector (Buyer & Seller) of various antiques for 30 years and have always loved ethnographic arts and crafts.In all that time I can't recall seeing too many Keris,at least on the West Coast (obviously I'd see more in SE Asia).Ebay of course has 'em(although one has to be knowledgable to buy here-and I'm not,but I suspect much of it is crap),Gun and Knife Shows,Flea Mkts,etc. Any other suggestions ? The Keris I listed in an earlier Posting I picked-up for $30 at a local Flea Market-solely on it's artistic merit and the fact that I have a decent knowledge of patina and 'feel' (and of course it seemed cheap,at least to Me-had it been a hundred bucks or more-i would have hesitated and mindgamed myself into a corner).Thanks for any help/tips You can think of.

nechesh · 4th February 2005, 06:42 PM

Wow, you bought that Moro keris you showed for $30 bucks?!

You dog!!!

There are a few good on-line dealers. Of course, you can't handle those. I'm not sure what the Portland scene is like, but i would imagine they might show up in some antique stores. My experience with that sphere in NYC has been that they are usually terribly over-priced in such places. Gun shows are sometimes a good place to look because those dealers usually value their guns more than edged weapons. But if you go to the big Baltimore show you will probably see a lot of keris, thought there weren't a lot of great ones or good deals when i was there.

Boswego · 4th February 2005, 07:54 PM

Necheseh- I thought it was a great deal.As soon as My Wife saw it she said-'We're keeping it !',and immediately started looking for a place to hang it. She loves nice old ethnographic art and I liked it too much too put on Ebay .I see some lovely looking old (authentic?) blades on Ebay priced btw. $125-$300 that get zero bids.Are most of the Keris on Ebay phonies,inferior,or are most Ebayers ferociously frugal (not my buyers of course)?

nechesh · 4th February 2005, 08:21 PM

A great deal of the keris you see on eBay are newly made. I personally don't consider this a problem if that is what i am looking for, but many of these guys selling these new keris claim they are old. That's a big problem for me on many levels. Even if i would be interested in a newly made keris, i would not be interested in buying it from one of these unscrupulous dealers. Just a matter of ethics for me. Some of these new keris are very nicely made. There is a market for the and people who chose to collect them because buying an old piece of the same quality with whatever rare pamor it has would cost thousands of dollar instead of hundreds. I have one really nice keris in my collection that i bought knowingly as a new piece just because it appealed to my artistic sensibilities.But the dealer was honest with me about it's age. I wouldn't but from any of these eBay deceivers at any price. Perhaps others feel this way which is why those keris you see get no bids.
You might also see other auctions on eBay go unbidded because sometimes the photos are so bad that you just can't get a good gauge of quality or authenticity from them. Sometimes you can take a chance here and make a good deal, but it's always hit or miss.

Mick · 4th February 2005, 09:37 PM

Boswego

The Great Western Show used to be a fine place to see and pick up good kerises at fair prices. Thanks to the county this show was run out of Los Angles (those horrible gun things were sold there). It has since moved to Fort Worth Texas.

The first couple of years the show did not draw as well and nearly dumped, now it has drawn for a couple of years and looks to be up to about 1100 tables this year. This is still a lot less than the 1500 to 2000 tables that it used to draw. I haven't been to the new location, but if you can find the time, it might be worth checking out. If you do so, please report your finding back to the forum for our edification.

Rick · 4th February 2005, 10:48 PM

The keris (not krisses) that I tend to collect are new ones sold to me by a Dealer that I trust implicitly . The new pieces he sells are the best of the affordable work coming out of Indonesia today . That solves any question of fakery for me .

I agree with Nechesh , I shun the Indo / Malay dealers on ebay .

There is only one Dealer from SG that I would feel safe dealing with , he is a long standing member here .

Boswego , you were very lucky to get that kris for thirty beans ; if you want to start collecting Moro kris you will need deep pockets except for the occasional sleeper you may stumble across . The Moro swords that I have collected over the last 7 years or so have doubled , tripled , and in some cases quadrupled in value since I purchased them .

I blame General Order #11 for this .

Above all I would add that an informed collector is an astute collector .
In other words buy books first , knowledge is buying power .

Boswego · 5th February 2005, 12:16 AM

Rick & Necesh-Thanks for the great advice.Rick,You are right-on about good Referrence Books.The better educated Antique Dealers I've met over the last 35 years frequently spend hundreds to thousands annually on good Ref Books.Even w/ the Internet,You still need to shell out those precious doubloons for the scholarly hard copy.
P.S.-I really made My Darlins day when I brought this Keris home-ethnographic antiquities can have a lot of 'Power', artistically and 'vibe'-wise too.These Cultures really beleived and invested power into the creation and usage of these items(similar to a Catholic with a cherised Rosary or a relic from a Saint)-potent,fascinating stuff.

Rick · 5th February 2005, 12:49 AM

Boswego ,
You are located in an area which may well have a greater abundance of Moro swords as soldiers from both Oregon and WA. were well represented during the Span Am war ; I have bought a lot of old Philippine edged weapons from your area .

Also,
What you bought is a 'kris' a term we use here to identify Moro examples .
All the other types are referred to in this forum as 'keris' .

It's a niggling little point but it helps to define which form we are discussing .

BTW , I was wondering if Vancouver might also be an area of interest due to its burgeoning Asian populace .

There is a wealth of information to be found on this subject (kris keris) by searching the old forum archives , have fun .

It's too late for you now buddy , I can see the signs of addiction already .

Sang Keris · 5th February 2005, 02:57 AM

i don't think giving too much trust only to one dealer is wise...

the best way is you have to cross the information from every source......from dealers or collectors....

remember .. those dealers also have dealers.....tht's why a dealer have to be able to cross info from every dealers .....thats how they become a dealer.
u think someone can be a dealer without enough knowledge?

and ... do you really think, that you will have enough knowledge to make different between new and old keris from books?

Rick · 5th February 2005, 03:06 AM

Last warning Sang keris ........

All you do is muddy the waters around here .
I'm getting tired of it .

Boswego · 5th February 2005, 03:31 AM

Thanks for the tip about the correct term 'Kris' (it'll help w/ google purchases).
As for getting 'gyped'by a modern repro-after 35 years of collecting/dealing in antiques-I'm pretty good at sensing age... BUT.... I realize there are some brilliant forgers out there in everything from Chinese porcelains (of course in the 18th century they were forging Ming ceramics,and tons of 14th-16th century arms & armor were created in the 19th century).And my last,but not least wall of protection-I'm a confirmed Cheapskate ! (wont shell-out'real' money for something I have doubts about-until i hit the Lotto of course-then I'll gamble !).I'll have to check out some of the new Kris & Keris on the Web.....any highly reccommend good trustworthy sites online ?

Rick · 5th February 2005, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boswego

Thanks for the tip about the correct term 'Kris' (it'll help w/ google purchases).

Hi Boswego ,
I was referring to the forum as far as that terminology use goes .

You'll find the terms to be interchangeable on google .

I've spent almost as much time picking and selling as you have .

You do get an almost instinctual feel with time .

I've always loved old stuff (grew up on a farm built in 1690), how lucky I was .

Some places to start .
As always, caveat emptor .
http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/ethlinks.html

nechesh · 5th February 2005, 03:59 AM

Boswego, i also have two dealers i buy from almost exclusively (one more than the other), though i will, like you, take the "cheap-skate" special every now and then just on a lark. But i think it is most important to find someone you can really trust, especially when it comes to keris.
Rick is, of course, right, and to down-play the importance of educating oneself through reading on the subject would be a great mistake. No, you will not become an expert from reading books alone, but with guidance from others you can trust and looking at A LOT of keris, recognition of a good keris gets easier with time.

I think it would be inappropriate to make any dealer recommendations in this forum. Sorry.

DhenTal · 5th February 2005, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

........ The new pieces he sells are the best of the affordable work coming out of Indonesia today . That solves any question of fakery for me .

I agree with Nechesh , I shun the Indo / Malay dealers on ebay .
There is only one Dealer from SG that I would feel safe dealing with , he is a long standing member here . .

.........
Rick, you are a vikingswords staff. But I don't know, how did you can posted a statement like that ? It is so tendensius for me...., really. Did a staff can give a adjustment like yours ?

Feel free guys.

I can suppose whose the dealer in Singapore that what you mean, but I don't say in this great forum.
I just tell you that in his site, he posted some a new kris too (indeed fake) that he said it was old piece and made by good iron... but, I don't think so.
Don't you guess that him kris, spesifically javanese kris, is a great kris.
For me, some of him javanese kris just a fake kris which sell for high price

.

Please, don't give a sentiment statement like that, because many forumities came in from many country and they have a difference experience to looking for some good kris... spesifically Indonesian dan Malaysian deallers or collector. They can feel offended by your statement

In Malay and Indo, still had a many dealer which have a good knowledge then you or dealer in online shopping and they have an integrity too. I myself, still trust to them which have no posted the piece at website or online shopping like that. If they selling some piece, they give a complete explanations about their kris with no deceive with a reasonable price.

So, please.. try to feel free and no tendensius adjustment

Sorry if I have a mistake in my posted

Thanks.

Sang Keris · 5th February 2005, 11:54 AM

[COLOR=Navy] It's just an advice, you may take it or ignore it... it's all up to you , .. no need to use A MAD ICON to talk..

Naga Basuki · 5th February 2005, 12:14 PM

Is it appropriate to mention dealers I like?

I have bought many pieces from them. I would recommend them as keris dealers and men of integrity.

I will wait for a staff response from Viking Sword, but I will send the names to Sang Keris privately.

Battara · 5th February 2005, 02:41 PM

Speaking of eBay and kris (Moro), books and handling are the best ways to tell authenticity. I never buy anything I haven't researched. This means that I pass up things sometimes, but then again, I have only been burned once.

Also, this helps in what to look for, say, when the pictures are bad. If you look at my avatar picture, the blade is WWII, but the hilt that you see is older and made of silver, swaasa (gold, copper, silver mix), and ivory. I got this puppy on eBay several years ago for.....dirt (less than $400 and I don't plan on selling it

). No one else bid on it because the pictures were aweful. However, I could tell enough about the metal work and ivory to be the only one to bid and won!

Again, research helped me out on this to see beyond the terrible picture (and the dealer was honest).

Boswego · 5th February 2005, 03:52 PM

In the first year of eBay a lot of Dealers used to get amazing deals from naive sellers.They'd find mispelled items like 'Tiffeny' (instead of Tiffany),or 'Caris Sord',etc,and get some great deals.You can still find some very nice new & old Ethnographic Art there.Native American artifact prices (generally pre-1940) have gone flat-out insane.Being a rookie-the only thing I can really judge a Keris & Kris by would be the quality of craftsmanship and design (new or old piece)-NOT by how bizarre or flashy it is.

Boswego · 5th February 2005, 03:58 PM

Gents-Is it OK to privately Email Forumites to get trusted Internet Dealer names (all will be held blameless,of course,if I got burned)?

Andrew · 5th February 2005, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DhenTal

.........
Rick, you are a vikingswords staff. But I don't know, how did you can posted a statement like that ? It is so tendensius for me...., really. Did a staff can give a adjustment like yours ?

Feel free guys.

I can suppose whose the dealer in Singapore that what you mean, but I don't say in this great forum.
I just tell you that in his site, he posted some a new kris too (indeed fake) that he said it was old piece and made by good iron... but, I don't think so.
Don't you guess that him kris, spesifically javanese kris, is a great kris.
For me, some of him javanese kris just a fake kris which sell for high price

.

Please, don't give a sentiment statement like that, because many forumities came in from many country and they have a difference experience to looking for some good kris... spesifically Indonesian dan Malaysian deallers or collector. They can feel offended by your statement

In Malay and Indo, still had a many dealer which have a good knowledge then you or dealer in online shopping and they have an integrity too. I myself, still trust to them which have no posted the piece at website or online shopping like that. If they selling some piece, they give a complete explanations about their kris with no deceive with a reasonable price.

So, please.. try to feel free and no tendensius adjustment

Sorry if I have a mistake in my posted

Thanks.

The mistake you have made in your post is to presume that Vikingsword Staff are not entitled to their opinions. I can't see how Rick's post would offend anyone except an unscrupulous eBay dealer, as that is clearly the class of individuals his comment was directed at.

Are you an eBay dealer?

Rick · 5th February 2005, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boswego

Gents-Is it OK to privately Email Forumites to get trusted Internet Dealer names (all will be held blameless,of course,if I got burned)?

Most certainly Boswego .

nechesh · 5th February 2005, 06:54 PM

In defense of Rick's statement i will say that i believe at least 95% of the keris dealers who sell regularly on eBay from the Indonesian/Malay area are con men!!! They attempt to sell newly made keris as old pieces. Sometimes they are actually selling fairly high quality new pieces and i think they might be more successful if they were smart enough to employ a bit of honesty. As Rick stated, he PURPOSEFULLY collects new pieces, as do many others, but i am sure he has no desire to collect from a dealer who would attempt to deceive him on the tangguh of a blade and therefore prefers to buy his new keris from someone who sells it as a new keris.
Now, he's your out gentlemen, i can think of a very few eBay keris dealers who ARE honest and upstanding dealers. Maybe you are one of them.

But believe me, they are few and far between.I will not name them here, the good or the bad. I have no desire to disparage anyones name nor do i intend to do a commercial advertisement for the good ones. I strongly believe that a certain number of less scrupulous dealers do operate here on this forum in order to subtly solicite sales and/or manipulate our thinking on the subject. Call me paranoid if you will.

Frankly i don't care. I know who you are and your actions are being less and less tolerated on this forum. I would like to see us return to more civil and academic discussion of keris on this forum. Dealers are, of course, welcome to join in that discussion, but let's all stop playing games with each other, eh?

I would personally welcome your input and knowledge, but not when it is formulated to manipulate sales for yourself or your friends. And believe me when i say some of you have been all too obvious about this
Now DhenTal, you wrote:
"I can suppose whose the dealer in Singapore that what you mean, but I don't say in this great forum.
I just tell you that in his site, he posted some a new kris too (indeed fake) that he said it was old piece and made by good iron... but, I don't think so.
Don't you guess that him kris, spesifically javanese kris, is a great kris.
For me, some of him javanese kris just a fake kris which sell for high price."

We are not stupid here, and while you are "supposing" so is everyone else. We all know the on-line dealer you are talking about and i find your unnamed attack on him to be far worse than anything Rick suggested because you, sir, are singling out a specific dealer and disbaraging his good name. And you give NO FACTS to support your claim. That you haven't actually used his name does not matter since many if not all of us here are smart enough to know just who you mean and i don't believe you will find much sympathy among your fellow forumites for this attack on a very well respected forumite.

Boswego, i would be more than happy to send you a list of good dealers, so check for a message soon.

Andrew · 5th February 2005, 10:40 PM

And with Nechesh's well-taken comments and observations, I will close this thread. This is a record for me, gentlemen. I dislike locking threads.

Keris thread funtime is over. Either you are here to contribute in a meaninful fashion, or you won't be here. In the future, posting privileges will simply be removed for abuse of this forum.

5th February 2005, 12:49 AM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	One Thing Boswego , You are located in an area which may well have a greater abundance of Moro swords as soldiers from both Oregon and WA. were well represented during the Span Am war ; I have bought a lot of old Philippine edged weapons from your area . Also, What you bought is a 'kris' a term we use here to identify Moro examples . All the other types are referred to in this forum as 'keris' . It's a niggling little point but it helps to define which form we are discussing . BTW , I was wondering if Vancouver might also be an area of interest due to its burgeoning Asian populace . There is a wealth of information to be found on this subject (kris keris) by searching the old forum archives , have fun . It's too late for you now buddy , I can see the signs of addiction already .

5th February 2005, 03:58 PM	#19
Boswego Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 23	Rick,Naga,Dhen-OK to use private Email for Dealer names ? Gents-Is it OK to privately Email Forumites to get trusted Internet Dealer names (all will be held blameless,of course,if I got burned)?

4th February 2005, 06:26 PM	#1
Boswego Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 23	Best sources for seeing,handling & purchasing Keris ? I'm new to the world of Keris.I live in Portland,OR and wonder if anyone might have tips on good sources on learning more and collecting Keris.I've been a Collector (Buyer & Seller) of various antiques for 30 years and have always loved ethnographic arts and crafts.In all that time I can't recall seeing too many Keris,at least on the West Coast (obviously I'd see more in SE Asia).Ebay of course has 'em(although one has to be knowledgable to buy here-and I'm not,but I suspect much of it is crap),Gun and Knife Shows,Flea Mkts,etc. Any other suggestions ? The Keris I listed in an earlier Posting I picked-up for $30 at a local Flea Market-solely on it's artistic merit and the fact that I have a decent knowledge of patina and 'feel' (and of course it seemed cheap,at least to Me-had it been a hundred bucks or more-i would have hesitated and mindgamed myself into a corner).Thanks for any help/tips You can think of.

4th February 2005, 06:42 PM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Wow, you bought that Moro keris you showed for $30 bucks?! You dog!!! There are a few good on-line dealers. Of course, you can't handle those. I'm not sure what the Portland scene is like, but i would imagine they might show up in some antique stores. My experience with that sphere in NYC has been that they are usually terribly over-priced in such places. Gun shows are sometimes a good place to look because those dealers usually value their guns more than edged weapons. But if you go to the big Baltimore show you will probably see a lot of keris, thought there weren't a lot of great ones or good deals when i was there.

4th February 2005, 07:54 PM	#3
Boswego Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 23	Necheseh- I thought it was a great deal.As soon as My Wife saw it she said-'We're keeping it !',and immediately started looking for a place to hang it. She loves nice old ethnographic art and I liked it too much too put on Ebay .I see some lovely looking old (authentic?) blades on Ebay priced btw. $125-$300 that get zero bids.Are most of the Keris on Ebay phonies,inferior,or are most Ebayers ferociously frugal (not my buyers of course)?

4th February 2005, 08:21 PM	#4
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	A great deal of the keris you see on eBay are newly made. I personally don't consider this a problem if that is what i am looking for, but many of these guys selling these new keris claim they are old. That's a big problem for me on many levels. Even if i would be interested in a newly made keris, i would not be interested in buying it from one of these unscrupulous dealers. Just a matter of ethics for me. Some of these new keris are very nicely made. There is a market for the and people who chose to collect them because buying an old piece of the same quality with whatever rare pamor it has would cost thousands of dollar instead of hundreds. I have one really nice keris in my collection that i bought knowingly as a new piece just because it appealed to my artistic sensibilities.But the dealer was honest with me about it's age. I wouldn't but from any of these eBay deceivers at any price. Perhaps others feel this way which is why those keris you see get no bids. You might also see other auctions on eBay go unbidded because sometimes the photos are so bad that you just can't get a good gauge of quality or authenticity from them. Sometimes you can take a chance here and make a good deal, but it's always hit or miss.

4th February 2005, 09:37 PM	#5
Mick Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 104	Boswego The Great Western Show used to be a fine place to see and pick up good kerises at fair prices. Thanks to the county this show was run out of Los Angles (those horrible gun things were sold there). It has since moved to Fort Worth Texas. The first couple of years the show did not draw as well and nearly dumped, now it has drawn for a couple of years and looks to be up to about 1100 tables this year. This is still a lot less than the 1500 to 2000 tables that it used to draw. I haven't been to the new location, but if you can find the time, it might be worth checking out. If you do so, please report your finding back to the forum for our edification.

4th February 2005, 10:48 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	The keris (not krisses) that I tend to collect are new ones sold to me by a Dealer that I trust implicitly . The new pieces he sells are the best of the affordable work coming out of Indonesia today . That solves any question of fakery for me . I agree with Nechesh , I shun the Indo / Malay dealers on ebay . There is only one Dealer from SG that I would feel safe dealing with , he is a long standing member here . Boswego , you were very lucky to get that kris for thirty beans ; if you want to start collecting Moro kris you will need deep pockets except for the occasional sleeper you may stumble across . The Moro swords that I have collected over the last 7 years or so have doubled , tripled , and in some cases quadrupled in value since I purchased them . I blame General Order #11 for this . Above all I would add that an informed collector is an astute collector . In other words buy books first , knowledge is buying power .

5th February 2005, 12:16 AM	#7
Boswego Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 23	Rick & Necesh-Thanks for the great advice.Rick,You are right-on about good Referrence Books.The better educated Antique Dealers I've met over the last 35 years frequently spend hundreds to thousands annually on good Ref Books.Even w/ the Internet,You still need to shell out those precious doubloons for the scholarly hard copy. P.S.-I really made My Darlins day when I brought this Keris home-ethnographic antiquities can have a lot of 'Power', artistically and 'vibe'-wise too.These Cultures really beleived and invested power into the creation and usage of these items(similar to a Catholic with a cherised Rosary or a relic from a Saint)-potent,fascinating stuff.

5th February 2005, 02:57 AM	#9
Sang Keris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Indonesia Posts: 46	i don't think giving too much trust only to one dealer is wise... the best way is you have to cross the information from every source......from dealers or collectors.... remember .. those dealers also have dealers.....tht's why a dealer have to be able to cross info from every dealers .....thats how they become a dealer. u think someone can be a dealer without enough knowledge? and ... do you really think, that you will have enough knowledge to make different between new and old keris from books?

5th February 2005, 03:06 AM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Last warning Sang keris ........ All you do is muddy the waters around here . I'm getting tired of it .

5th February 2005, 03:31 AM	#11
Boswego Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 23	Thanks for the tip about the correct term 'Kris' (it'll help w/ google purchases). As for getting 'gyped'by a modern repro-after 35 years of collecting/dealing in antiques-I'm pretty good at sensing age... BUT.... I realize there are some brilliant forgers out there in everything from Chinese porcelains (of course in the 18th century they were forging Ming ceramics,and tons of 14th-16th century arms & armor were created in the 19th century).And my last,but not least wall of protection-I'm a confirmed Cheapskate ! (wont shell-out'real' money for something I have doubts about-until i hit the Lotto of course-then I'll gamble !).I'll have to check out some of the new Kris & Keris on the Web.....any highly reccommend good trustworthy sites online ?

5th February 2005, 03:59 AM	#13
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Boswego, i also have two dealers i buy from almost exclusively (one more than the other), though i will, like you, take the "cheap-skate" special every now and then just on a lark. But i think it is most important to find someone you can really trust, especially when it comes to keris. Rick is, of course, right, and to down-play the importance of educating oneself through reading on the subject would be a great mistake. No, you will not become an expert from reading books alone, but with guidance from others you can trust and looking at A LOT of keris, recognition of a good keris gets easier with time. I think it would be inappropriate to make any dealer recommendations in this forum. Sorry.

5th February 2005, 11:54 AM	#15
Sang Keris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Indonesia Posts: 46	[COLOR=Navy] It's just an advice, you may take it or ignore it... it's all up to you , .. no need to use A MAD ICON to talk..

5th February 2005, 12:14 PM	#16
Naga Basuki Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Big old machine shop/foundry/warehouse in Atlanta GA USA Posts: 51	Is it appropriate to mention dealers I like? I have bought many pieces from them. I would recommend them as keris dealers and men of integrity. I will wait for a staff response from Viking Sword, but I will send the names to Sang Keris privately.

5th February 2005, 02:41 PM	#17
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	Speaking of eBay and kris (Moro), books and handling are the best ways to tell authenticity. I never buy anything I haven't researched. This means that I pass up things sometimes, but then again, I have only been burned once. Also, this helps in what to look for, say, when the pictures are bad. If you look at my avatar picture, the blade is WWII, but the hilt that you see is older and made of silver, swaasa (gold, copper, silver mix), and ivory. I got this puppy on eBay several years ago for.....dirt (less than $400 and I don't plan on selling it ). No one else bid on it because the pictures were aweful. However, I could tell enough about the metal work and ivory to be the only one to bid and won! Again, research helped me out on this to see beyond the terrible picture (and the dealer was honest).

5th February 2005, 03:52 PM	#18
Boswego Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 23	In the first year of eBay a lot of Dealers used to get amazing deals from naive sellers.They'd find mispelled items like 'Tiffeny' (instead of Tiffany),or 'Caris Sord',etc,and get some great deals.You can still find some very nice new & old Ethnographic Art there.Native American artifact prices (generally pre-1940) have gone flat-out insane.Being a rookie-the only thing I can really judge a Keris & Kris by would be the quality of craftsmanship and design (new or old piece)-NOT by how bizarre or flashy it is.

5th February 2005, 06:54 PM	#22
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	In defense of Rick's statement i will say that i believe at least 95% of the keris dealers who sell regularly on eBay from the Indonesian/Malay area are con men!!! They attempt to sell newly made keris as old pieces. Sometimes they are actually selling fairly high quality new pieces and i think they might be more successful if they were smart enough to employ a bit of honesty. As Rick stated, he PURPOSEFULLY collects new pieces, as do many others, but i am sure he has no desire to collect from a dealer who would attempt to deceive him on the tangguh of a blade and therefore prefers to buy his new keris from someone who sells it as a new keris. Now, he's your out gentlemen, i can think of a very few eBay keris dealers who ARE honest and upstanding dealers. Maybe you are one of them. But believe me, they are few and far between.I will not name them here, the good or the bad. I have no desire to disparage anyones name nor do i intend to do a commercial advertisement for the good ones. I strongly believe that a certain number of less scrupulous dealers do operate here on this forum in order to subtly solicite sales and/or manipulate our thinking on the subject. Call me paranoid if you will. Frankly i don't care. I know who you are and your actions are being less and less tolerated on this forum. I would like to see us return to more civil and academic discussion of keris on this forum. Dealers are, of course, welcome to join in that discussion, but let's all stop playing games with each other, eh? I would personally welcome your input and knowledge, but not when it is formulated to manipulate sales for yourself or your friends. And believe me when i say some of you have been all too obvious about this Now DhenTal, you wrote: "I can suppose whose the dealer in Singapore that what you mean, but I don't say in this great forum. I just tell you that in his site, he posted some a new kris too (indeed fake) that he said it was old piece and made by good iron... but, I don't think so. Don't you guess that him kris, spesifically javanese kris, is a great kris. For me, some of him javanese kris just a fake kris which sell for high price." We are not stupid here, and while you are "supposing" so is everyone else. We all know the on-line dealer you are talking about and i find your unnamed attack on him to be far worse than anything Rick suggested because you, sir, are singling out a specific dealer and disbaraging his good name. And you give NO FACTS to support your claim. That you haven't actually used his name does not matter since many if not all of us here are smart enough to know just who you mean and i don't believe you will find much sympathy among your fellow forumites for this attack on a very well respected forumite. Boswego, i would be more than happy to send you a list of good dealers, so check for a message soon.

5th February 2005, 10:40 PM	#23
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	And with Nechesh's well-taken comments and observations, I will close this thread. This is a record for me, gentlemen. I dislike locking threads. Keris thread funtime is over. Either you are here to contribute in a meaninful fashion, or you won't be here. In the future, posting privileges will simply be removed for abuse of this forum.