My first sword

[Ed]

Back in the day, when I was 10, 11? I wanted a sword. No, I NEEDED a sword.

I had no idea how to get one but I somehow came across mail order surplus dealers. Here is the result. My first sword.

This example of the swordmaker's art is a cut down blade (I understand from a Patton Sword) with a bent steel knuckle bow.

This was mounted on my wall had held pride of place for a decade or more.

Interestingly, I came across an auction of this fine thing. They referred to it as a "Drop Sword" made to be dropped to outfit resistance fighters during WW2.

Pardon me for a moment


Anyhoo, it is number one and I am going to give it to my grandson with a lesson on fakes.

[Jim McDougall]

What a great story Ed!!! I totally relate as my first weapons (c.1955) were surplus bayonets bought from bucket fulls in a surplus store at about a quarter apiece. But enthralled by Zorro on Disney a bit later, I longed for a 'sword'.
My first 'sword' was an old Moro keris I got when I helped a guy sand down an old model A frame for a hot rod he was building.

Attached is a M1913 'Patton' sword. Actually these are somewhat reduced in their number as in the WWII period, many were cut down into 'trench knives' but using the huge hilt, and cutting down the blade.

This anomaly you post is interesting as it seems to resemble the 1918 WWI trench knife' knuckle duster, as if a vestigial reference to the knuckles.
Ironically in was made by LF&C...the same outfit that made my M1913 (in 1919!)

[Ed]

Ex wife swiped my trench knife from grand dad.

I bought the sword from a dodgy surplus dealer J&S sales maybe?? Name escapes me.

At the time, I knew that it wasn't "right" but it was the closest I could come.

[fernando]

Jim, you and i have been through this a thousand times. I can understand (can i ?) Ed has not the read scope of our Euro forum. But your adding fuel to the fire, posting again and again that Patton stuff ! Jim my friend, definitely we are becoming old, Jim .
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23414.

[Ed]

Just a little fun. Perhaps a sub forum like "Banter"?

BTW it is highly unclear to me what was cut down. I had thought that it was originally perhaps a Horstmann US Staff Sword from the CW period. I'd be interested in any comments.

Another point is that I had heard/read that there were still stores of US Civil War material scattered about the country. This was some time ago ut it makes some sense. I might vote that this example has a blade that is earlier than the Patton sword.

And on the Patton Sword itself: it should certainly be part of the corpus of this forum. It is the final, ultimate manifestation of the European Sword. In fact it's development owes more to the European Court Sword tradition than anything else. I would argue that Patton, who was a romantic at heart, knew full well that he was paying homage to that tradition.

Rules are great but slavishly folling them is really dangerous for intellectual exploration.

my 2p

[fernando]

Thank you for your bright views, Ed. But ... just stick to the rules !

[Jim McDougall]

No problem Fernando. Why not just move the thread to MISC?
AFTER I wrote, I realized this would most certainly set off the alarms, but hoped the discussion despite my transgression might veer back on course.
As Ed noted, the TOPIC was 'first sword' which was more of a 'humanities' note and discussion......it just happened that for Ed and I , in those post war years had more 'opportunity' to acquire old surplus items......and there werent many 17th Spanish cuphilts in war surplus stores.

The intent was not to open a discussion on the verboten 'Patton' swords, but to discuss early days of collecting...............there DO seem to be many collectors here and the idea was MAYBE others might share their experiences.

Yeah, were getting old Fernando, but honestly, theres nothing like a good scolding now and then to keep ya young!!! Reminds me of my youth (about 70 years ago now).

Ed, BEAUTIFULLY said about Patton, who was indeed an old soul, born entirely in the wrong century. As you say, homage to the sword very much is carried into modern times as a mark of honor. Patton himself was born however in the previous century, but only the part of his life FIN DE SIECLE is would be appropriate.
The fact that he, and ultimately the sword he designed in accord with the ultimate homage to the European sword, both transcend the arbitrary mark, is indeed unfortunate.

Often there are threads posted in the wrong area in our forums, however in the ethnographic forum, where there is no chronological barrier, the subject thread is simply moved to European or whatever without issue. While there is a keris forum, there are countless examples of these posted in threads on ethnographic, and remain there instead of being moved.
No idea what the criteria is there.

It seems indeed this thread COULD have been moved with the simple note, more appropriate in other forum, without scoldings. ....but really, no drama?
Rules are rules, and I can well understand, indeed.

A bit more banter (if permissable), often my wife scolds me for some infraction I have committed......I often say.....the reason I do these things is so you dont think Im perfect!

[Ed]

Perhaps the rules need to be rethought?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Ed

Perhaps the rules need to be rethought?

Then you have a different forum. Or if you prefer, think of ice cream cones; everyone choses a different flavor !

[midelburgo]

This thread has remembered me of a group of mongrels that have been haunting ebay since its beginnings. I am not at home, maybe on Sunday I will be able to put pictures.
They are sold as Spanish XVIIth century sail daggers for the left hand. They are very simple with a wood grip. And, this is the fun, a three sided blade. I bought a couple in USA in early 2000s for some 30$, but I have seen them going for up to 300$.

In truth they are Moisin-Nagant bayonets with the fixation and the elbow removed. Thousands of them were given by the URSS, to the Spanish Republic during the Civil War in 1937-1939.

In the 1950s somebody shall have thought of making business with them, and transformed them. Somehow most ended in USA, possibly through the military personnel at Rota or Zaragoza bases.