Solomon Islands club opinions?

Tim Simmons · 9th March 2014, 05:37 PM

This looks very nice. Does have some age.

manteris1 · 9th March 2014, 06:38 PM

Nice Tim, how long is it, could you give us photo on the butt ..................jimmy

VANDOO · 9th March 2014, 08:30 PM

A VERY NICE EXAMPLE AND IT DOES SHOW SOME AGE. THE ONES I HAVE SEEN ARE USUALLY ATTRIBUTED TO RENELL ISLAND IN THE SOLOMONS. ALL OF THEM I HAVE SEEN HAVE BEEN SHORT CLUBS USUALLY AROUND 15 INCHES GIVE OR TAKE. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS AN ANCIENT FORM OR POST WW2 OR IF IT IS CEREMONIAL IN NATURE OR FOR WAR USE. I THINK THE BLADED HEAD IS A MORE MODERN FORM AND THUS CEREMONIAL BUT THATS JUST MY OPINION NOT SOMETHING BASED ON RESEARCH. NO MATTER A VERY ATTRACTIVE FORM EVERYONE WHO LIKES CLUBS SHOULD HAVE ONE.

RECENT MADE ONES SHOW UP ON EBAY SO I THINK THEY ARE STILL BEING MADE FOR THOSE WHO TRAVEL. YOUR EXAMPLE IS OLDER THAN WHAT I USUALLY SEE. A FEW EXAMPLES OF SIMULAR FORMS OF SHORT CLUBS FROM THE AREA.
#1. A 11 IN. RENNEL ISLAND CLUB OLD FORM
#2. 36 CM. L. SAID TO BE 1930'S
#3. 44 CM. l. MILNE BAY AREA
#4. RENNEL. IS. SOLOMON IS. RECENT MANUFACTURE
#5. #6, #7, 45 CM. SOLOMON IS.
#8. SOLOMON IS. WW2
#9. SOLOMON IS.

Tim Simmons · 10th March 2014, 10:58 AM

Thank you, it is rather eye catching. I have to wait for arrival. In the meantime I have made a rough picture percentage size difference with one I already have, 47cm long and 37cm long. Although shorter, the new one is more chunky and about the same weight 1kg+ I could believe them both to be from around the first quarter of the 20th century. If items are well curated they could be possibly be earlier. When I have it I shall continue with more follow up information.

Tim Simmons · 17th March 2014, 08:24 PM

It is here and I have to say it is quite nice. It has excellent balance in the hand. Much better than the larger item in the earlier thread, which is 130 g heavier being 1.092 kg
It has good age but some damage to the grip which is a real shame. If one was of a mind too, this could be sorted in some way. I am adding some information only snippets but enlightening. The figure carvings are added to show contrast between the new and traditional styles. The postcard is circa 1910. Headhunting ended around 1900. The decline in value of traditional culture meant some decline in artworks and the development of others. No long relevant much traditional artwork, along with new tourist market productions was sold to help fund missions and other projects. All these pictures {basic I know but lets keep it simple} have come from " Melanesia Art and encounter, the British museum" The black and white diagram relates to the axe in the afore mentioned publication and my new club. Also the picture of a chief, perhaps small Solomon clubs are not all made for suitcases.

Tim Simmons · 17th March 2014, 09:29 PM

The postcard is just like any English village, Anglican Church, table top sale.

VANDOO · 19th March 2014, 06:10 AM

I WISH THERE WERE TABLE TOP SALES LIKE THAT AROUND HERE.

TWO VERY NICE EXAMPLES OF THE FORM. CONGRADULATIONS. I RESIZED A PICTURE OF THE CLUB TOP WITH INLAY OF A CLUB PICTURED PREVIOUSLY IT LOOKS A LOT LIKE YOUR LARGER EXAMPLE.

colin henshaw · 19th March 2014, 09:19 AM

A good looking club, Tim. So presumably it was made for sale to Europeans ?

Tim Simmons · 19th March 2014, 05:46 PM

Not necessarily. Headhunting raids might well have been outlawed by 1900. Traditional weapons would still be in use.

Quote from "The British Museum, Melanesia Art and encounter"

Clubs today
Though today deadly violence on Malaita is much less common than in the past, Kwaio and some other Malaitans still make and carry alafolo, subi and morimori. In Kwaio today most men go armed when away from thier hamlets, some still carry clubs (now often steel reinforcement rods), though most now simply carry machetes, which are also all-purpose work tools. However, many Kwaio have told me they would rather wield a club in a fight, even if they prefer to carry a lighter and more versatile machete day to day.

I do not know how significant it may be but the mother of pearl pattern on the handle of my clubs does correspond to the earlier ritual pattern form shown in the diagram in previous post. That and the apparent age of the club makes me rather hopeful that it is indeed a cultural artifact. The account of the Malaita Massacre 1927,

"Lightning Meets the West Wind- The Malaita Massacre- Roger M.Keesing/Peter Corris 1980 Oxford University press"

Mention is made of the abandonment and scattering of traditional weapons after the Kwaoi warriors were dispersed by armed police.

Picture of the club ends.

Pinocchio · 11th April 2017, 06:49 AM

Dear Tim,

Could you tell me the references of the book where you got this old curios picture of the Solomon Islands ?

Thank you

Francois Gastine

Tim Simmons · 12th April 2017, 11:51 AM

This is the book. isbn 978-0-7141-2596-1. You can probably get from British Museum online book shop. It is well worth having is you are interested in the Melanesia Islands.

Tim Simmons · 16th April 2017, 08:50 AM

With regards to the artefacts on the table top sale post card. Although missions were founded in the late 19th century, evangelism did not really take off until the first decade of the 20th century. In converted zeal much traditional artefacts no longer held any value or spiritual power so were discarded in many ways and almost in total. Now the situation has changed to one of regret and a degree of blame, but that should cut both ways. The same thing as with the Asmat of Papua. Even up to the 1960s traditional powerful artefacts could be collected with ease buy travellers.

BANDOOK · 16th April 2017, 12:04 PM

HI TIM,HERE IS MINE FROM THE RENNEL ISLANDS
KIND REGARDS RAJESH

Tim Simmons · 16th April 2017, 02:31 PM

Very nice and appear to have some age. There is a big difference between these and the modern tourist clubs. When I get home I can show the difference by examples.

BANDOOK · 16th April 2017, 10:00 PM

THANKS TIM,WOULD LOVE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THESE CLUBS,CHEERS RAJESH

Tim Simmons · 22nd April 2017, 05:00 PM

The difference between the right kind be that fighting or ceremonial clubs and tourist souvenir versions is plian to see here. The vine weave is a different colour that one might think looks old.

Tim Simmons · 22nd April 2017, 05:42 PM

Two more add to the collection probably not the oldest, however the same dimensions as these two posted earlier.

Tim Simmons · 23rd April 2017, 08:43 AM

Like many ornate weapons world wide in industrial and " primitive " cultures. Are used as gifts to cemment trade and diplomatic relations. In the Solomon's as in Africa and else where payment for services are made by the commissioning and gifting of prestige artefacts. Quite possibly successful people like we'll decorated weapons too.

Tim Simmons · 23rd April 2017, 09:07 AM

Look at this. A must do. New items always prompt new research.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...WtnrAKZsJgojsg

Tim Simmons · 25th April 2017, 06:00 PM

This chap in 1928 had a very nice spear with shell inlay.

BANDOOK · 26th April 2017, 08:47 AM

Tim Nice picture,looks like a fishing spear.Please could you roughly tell me age of my club,thanks Rajesh

Tim Simmons · 26th April 2017, 02:45 PM

Perhaps man fishing spear. Bat wing bone spikes to stick in and fester a wound.

Rajesh, I would not like to say a definite age for your or my clubs of this type. The two new acquisitions of mine do have some age and patina. I have smeared mucilage glue on the top binding of the larger example as it was very fragile. I do not think it too optimistic to suggest a date of 1930s but that does not mean they are quite possibly older? around the first two decades of the 20th century. The biggest cultural changes are after the 40s. I must say I like your club very much with 12 fins, mine has 10 on the big one and 8 on the smaller club, fin envy. I am showing the new pieces against the tourist piece for comparison. They are multiplying . There seems a mix of styles, note the handle ends, perhaps from different Islands? even variations from the same Island?

BANDOOK · 27th April 2017, 01:42 PM

Thanks Tim,
Am learning a lot from you in this thread,my Club came into New Zealand in early 70s from the Solomons .This man had lived and travelled to many countrys in Micronesia and Polynesia as he was a Captain of a private yacht for a Rich man .I bought some ethnic items from him including this lovely Club .Best Regards Rajesh

11th April 2017, 06:49 AM	#10
Pinocchio Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 12	book references Dear Tim, Could you tell me the references of the book where you got this old curios picture of the Solomon Islands ? Thank you Francois Gastine

12th April 2017, 11:51 AM	#11
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	This is the book. isbn 978-0-7141-2596-1. You can probably get from British Museum online book shop. It is well worth having is you are interested in the Melanesia Islands. Attached Images

16th April 2017, 08:50 AM	#12
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	With regards to the artefacts on the table top sale post card. Although missions were founded in the late 19th century, evangelism did not really take off until the first decade of the 20th century. In converted zeal much traditional artefacts no longer held any value or spiritual power so were discarded in many ways and almost in total. Now the situation has changed to one of regret and a degree of blame, but that should cut both ways. The same thing as with the Asmat of Papua. Even up to the 1960s traditional powerful artefacts could be collected with ease buy travellers. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 16th April 2017 at 11:00 AM.

16th April 2017, 12:04 PM	#13
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	MY SOLOMON ISLAND CLUB HI TIM,HERE IS MINE FROM THE RENNEL ISLANDS KIND REGARDS RAJESH Attached Images

22nd April 2017, 05:00 PM	#16
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	The difference between the right kind be that fighting or ceremonial clubs and tourist souvenir versions is plian to see here. The vine weave is a different colour that one might think looks old. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 22nd April 2017 at 05:31 PM.

9th March 2014, 05:37 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Solomon Islands club opinions? This looks very nice. Does have some age. Attached Images

9th March 2014, 06:38 PM	#2
manteris1 Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 114	Nice Tim, how long is it, could you give us photo on the butt ..................jimmy

9th March 2014, 08:30 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A VERY NICE EXAMPLE AND IT DOES SHOW SOME AGE. THE ONES I HAVE SEEN ARE USUALLY ATTRIBUTED TO RENELL ISLAND IN THE SOLOMONS. ALL OF THEM I HAVE SEEN HAVE BEEN SHORT CLUBS USUALLY AROUND 15 INCHES GIVE OR TAKE. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS AN ANCIENT FORM OR POST WW2 OR IF IT IS CEREMONIAL IN NATURE OR FOR WAR USE. I THINK THE BLADED HEAD IS A MORE MODERN FORM AND THUS CEREMONIAL BUT THATS JUST MY OPINION NOT SOMETHING BASED ON RESEARCH. NO MATTER A VERY ATTRACTIVE FORM EVERYONE WHO LIKES CLUBS SHOULD HAVE ONE. RECENT MADE ONES SHOW UP ON EBAY SO I THINK THEY ARE STILL BEING MADE FOR THOSE WHO TRAVEL. YOUR EXAMPLE IS OLDER THAN WHAT I USUALLY SEE. A FEW EXAMPLES OF SIMULAR FORMS OF SHORT CLUBS FROM THE AREA. #1. A 11 IN. RENNEL ISLAND CLUB OLD FORM #2. 36 CM. L. SAID TO BE 1930'S #3. 44 CM. l. MILNE BAY AREA #4. RENNEL. IS. SOLOMON IS. RECENT MANUFACTURE #5. #6, #7, 45 CM. SOLOMON IS. #8. SOLOMON IS. WW2 #9. SOLOMON IS. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 10th March 2014 at 07:49 PM.

10th March 2014, 10:58 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Thank you, it is rather eye catching. I have to wait for arrival. In the meantime I have made a rough picture percentage size difference with one I already have, 47cm long and 37cm long. Although shorter, the new one is more chunky and about the same weight 1kg+ I could believe them both to be from around the first quarter of the 20th century. If items are well curated they could be possibly be earlier. When I have it I shall continue with more follow up information. Attached Images

17th March 2014, 08:24 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	It is here and I have to say it is quite nice. It has excellent balance in the hand. Much better than the larger item in the earlier thread, which is 130 g heavier being 1.092 kg It has good age but some damage to the grip which is a real shame. If one was of a mind too, this could be sorted in some way. I am adding some information only snippets but enlightening. The figure carvings are added to show contrast between the new and traditional styles. The postcard is circa 1910. Headhunting ended around 1900. The decline in value of traditional culture meant some decline in artworks and the development of others. No long relevant much traditional artwork, along with new tourist market productions was sold to help fund missions and other projects. All these pictures {basic I know but lets keep it simple} have come from " Melanesia Art and encounter, the British museum" The black and white diagram relates to the axe in the afore mentioned publication and my new club. Also the picture of a chief, perhaps small Solomon clubs are not all made for suitcases. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 17th March 2014 at 08:47 PM.

17th March 2014, 09:29 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	The postcard is just like any English village, Anglican Church, table top sale.

19th March 2014, 06:10 AM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I WISH THERE WERE TABLE TOP SALES LIKE THAT AROUND HERE. TWO VERY NICE EXAMPLES OF THE FORM. CONGRADULATIONS. I RESIZED A PICTURE OF THE CLUB TOP WITH INLAY OF A CLUB PICTURED PREVIOUSLY IT LOOKS A LOT LIKE YOUR LARGER EXAMPLE. Attached Images

19th March 2014, 09:19 AM	#8
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	A good looking club, Tim. So presumably it was made for sale to Europeans ?

19th March 2014, 05:46 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Not necessarily. Headhunting raids might well have been outlawed by 1900. Traditional weapons would still be in use. Quote from "The British Museum, Melanesia Art and encounter" Clubs today Though today deadly violence on Malaita is much less common than in the past, Kwaio and some other Malaitans still make and carry alafolo, subi and morimori. In Kwaio today most men go armed when away from thier hamlets, some still carry clubs (now often steel reinforcement rods), though most now simply carry machetes, which are also all-purpose work tools. However, many Kwaio have told me they would rather wield a club in a fight, even if they prefer to carry a lighter and more versatile machete day to day. I do not know how significant it may be but the mother of pearl pattern on the handle of my clubs does correspond to the earlier ritual pattern form shown in the diagram in previous post. That and the apparent age of the club makes me rather hopeful that it is indeed a cultural artifact. The account of the Malaita Massacre 1927, "Lightning Meets the West Wind- The Malaita Massacre- Roger M.Keesing/Peter Corris 1980 Oxford University press" Mention is made of the abandonment and scattering of traditional weapons after the Kwaoi warriors were dispersed by armed police. Picture of the club ends. Attached Images

16th April 2017, 02:31 PM	#14
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Very nice and appear to have some age. There is a big difference between these and the modern tourist clubs. When I get home I can show the difference by examples.

16th April 2017, 10:00 PM	#15
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	THANKS TIM,WOULD LOVE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THESE CLUBS,CHEERS RAJESH

22nd April 2017, 05:42 PM	#17
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Two more add to the collection probably not the oldest, however the same dimensions as these two posted earlier. Attached Images

23rd April 2017, 08:43 AM	#18
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Like many ornate weapons world wide in industrial and " primitive " cultures. Are used as gifts to cemment trade and diplomatic relations. In the Solomon's as in Africa and else where payment for services are made by the commissioning and gifting of prestige artefacts. Quite possibly successful people like we'll decorated weapons too.

23rd April 2017, 09:07 AM	#19
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Look at this. A must do. New items always prompt new research. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...WtnrAKZsJgojsg

25th April 2017, 06:00 PM	#20
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	This chap in 1928 had a very nice spear with shell inlay. Attached Images

26th April 2017, 08:47 AM	#21
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	Tim Nice picture,looks like a fishing spear.Please could you roughly tell me age of my club,thanks Rajesh

26th April 2017, 02:45 PM	#22
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Perhaps man fishing spear. Bat wing bone spikes to stick in and fester a wound. Rajesh, I would not like to say a definite age for your or my clubs of this type. The two new acquisitions of mine do have some age and patina. I have smeared mucilage glue on the top binding of the larger example as it was very fragile. I do not think it too optimistic to suggest a date of 1930s but that does not mean they are quite possibly older? around the first two decades of the 20th century. The biggest cultural changes are after the 40s. I must say I like your club very much with 12 fins, mine has 10 on the big one and 8 on the smaller club, fin envy. I am showing the new pieces against the tourist piece for comparison. They are multiplying . There seems a mix of styles, note the handle ends, perhaps from different Islands? even variations from the same Island? Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 26th April 2017 at 02:59 PM.

27th April 2017, 01:42 PM	#23
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	Thanks Tim, Am learning a lot from you in this thread,my Club came into New Zealand in early 70s from the Solomons .This man had lived and travelled to many countrys in Micronesia and Polynesia as he was a Captain of a private yacht for a Rich man .I bought some ethnic items from him including this lovely Club .Best Regards Rajesh