Burmese sword for discussion

chiefheadknocker · 11th April 2017, 06:03 PM

This sword ive acquired lately and believe its a Burmese sword ,I would just like to know any information , use, age , tribe etc ,it looks to have been well used .
thanks

Ian · 12th April 2017, 05:30 AM

Hi chief:

There are a couple of possibilities for this one. Can you show us some better pics of the blade? Also, what are the dimensions--overall length, blade length, etc.?

The brass slug set into the spine of the blade suggests 20th C Thai manufacture, but more details of the blade will help.

Ian.

chiefheadknocker · 12th April 2017, 12:16 PM

thanks for your reply ,ive attached a few photos of the blade ,total length is 73cm and blade alone 43 , the bade has a few bad rust spots ,whats the best method of treating this ?

Sajen · 13th April 2017, 12:22 PM

Ian is correct, Thai in origin, the engraving is the giveaway, would guess early 20th century. Nice complete piece, I would personally clean the blade.

Regards,
Detlef

Ian · 13th April 2017, 02:17 PM

Hi again chief:

Yes, this is a 20th C Thai daab. The engraved lines and "S" shaped markings are typical of post-WWII northern Thai work.

If you look among the Classic Threads at the top of the Ethnographic Forum page, you will find a link to "Contemporary Thai swords" that has more information about these pieces.

Ian

chiefheadknocker · 13th April 2017, 04:08 PM

Thanks for everyones help with this , your knowledge is much appretiated

Sajen · 13th April 2017, 05:40 PM

Hi Ian,

I personally don't think that the daab in question is a post WWII example, the patina and workmanship let me think that it is to date between 1910-1940.

Regards,
Detlef

RSWORD · 13th April 2017, 07:22 PM

I agree with Detlef. The thick spine that is peaked or V shaped suggests a sword made for serious use and I would also date to the early part of the 20th century. Those later examples with S line markings lack the thickness and V shaped or peaked spine.

Ian · 14th April 2017, 01:24 AM

Hi Detlef and Rick:

Thanks for the comments on the quality of this sword. My previous comments were perhaps too cryptic, so let me expand on them.

When speaking of the "S"-shaped marks on this blade as being post WWII, I was drawing on my own experience of swords that have been offered on the market for several decades. Typically, these marks were often applied randomly and have no particular meaning (according to one or two Thai collectors who have posted here previously)--blades marked in this manner were intended for the popular market rather than for use as a machete or general purpose sword/knife. The vast majority of these have poor quality blades, as I'm sure both of you know. Among those offered online, for example, it is very uncommon to find a reasonable quality blade with these particular markings applied in the manner of the sword shown above. One does certainly find decent, and possibly older, blades with a carefully engraved line of these "S"-shapes that forms a chain running adjacent to the spine of the blade, but not the stacks or clusters seen on late 20th C versions. The better quality blades are northern Thai/Lao in origin.

Similar comments can be made about the thinly inscribed lines running adjacent to the spine of the blade. These, too, appear to have emerged as common decoration in the second half of the 20th C. Although earlier examples do occur, these are deeper, and in the nature of shallow fullers, compared with the more superficial scratches that are found in late 20th C examples.

I agree with both of you that this appears to be a much better quality of blade than most of those bearing these marks. If the blade was cleaned and showed a hardened edge then it would be clearly a blade intended for use rather than display.

The degree of oxidation on these blades depends so much on how they have been used and stored. Similarly, the amount of wear and "aging" on the scabbard depends on use and storage. However, we don't know whether this sword and scabbard started out together or are a later marriage, so the scabbard does not really help in dating the sword. Interestingly, the amount of wear on the hilt (which is quite good quality for its type) is minimal, suggesting little use.

Could this sword be from the first half of the 20th C? Perhaps. But for me, the blade decoration is key to dating the sword, and that most likely points to the second half of the 20th C. The sword shown above appears to be a better quality sword than the vast majority of similar ones that were marketed heavily to US servicemen during the Vietnam war and to tourists to Thailand subsequently.

Ian

chiefheadknocker · 14th April 2017, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Ian is correct, Thai in origin, the engraving is the giveaway, would guess early 20th century. Nice complete piece, I would personally clean the blade.

Regards,
Detlef

thanks for your input , just thinking what would be the best way to clean this blade ?

Sajen · 14th April 2017, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefheadknocker

thanks for your input , just thinking what would be the best way to clean this blade ?

Hi Chief,

abrasive paper and elbow grease!

Start with 240 and go up to 800 or 1000. A mild etch will show if the blade has a hardened edge.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 14th April 2017, 12:08 PM

Here a similar example from my own collection, 76 cm inside scabbard, blade 41 cm, handle 26,6 cm, thickness of the blade near the handle 7 mm. Handle top plate is a coin, 1/2 cent from Indochine Francaise 1938 (I know that this can't be a proof of age

) The handle binding suggest an intensive use.

Sajen · 14th April 2017, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefheadknocker

This sword ive acquired lately and believe its a Burmese sword ,I would just like to know any information , use, age , tribe etc ,it looks to have been well used .
thanks

Can you give us the measurements of your sword please?

Sorry, just noticed that you have done it already!

But how thick is the blade near the handle?

Gavin Nugent · 14th April 2017, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi again chief:

Yes, this is a 20th C Thai daab. The engraved lines and "S" shaped markings are typical of post-WWII northern Thai work.

Ian

As a side note, the markings described go back in to previous centuries too.

Gavin

chiefheadknocker · 15th April 2017, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Can you give us the measurements of your sword please?

Sorry, just noticed that you have done it already!

But how thick is the blade near the handle?

hi, the blade is 9mm thick near the handle , I have cleaned the blade as it had lots of rust spots ,ere are a couple of pics which I think show a hardened edge

Sajen · 15th April 2017, 09:26 PM

Yes, it look like this! Good simple Thai daab!

Ian · 16th April 2017, 04:12 AM

Yes, that's a good quality blade. A typical working daab.

11th April 2017, 06:03 PM	#1
chiefheadknocker Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 143	Burmese sword for discussion This sword ive acquired lately and believe its a Burmese sword ,I would just like to know any information , use, age , tribe etc ,it looks to have been well used . thanks Attached Images

12th April 2017, 12:16 PM	#3
chiefheadknocker Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 143	thanks for your reply ,ive attached a few photos of the blade ,total length is 73cm and blade alone 43 , the bade has a few bad rust spots ,whats the best method of treating this ? Attached Images

14th April 2017, 12:08 PM	#12
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Here a similar example from my own collection, 76 cm inside scabbard, blade 41 cm, handle 26,6 cm, thickness of the blade near the handle 7 mm. Handle top plate is a coin, 1/2 cent from Indochine Francaise 1938 (I know that this can't be a proof of age ) The handle binding suggest an intensive use. Attached Images

12th April 2017, 05:30 AM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Hi chief: There are a couple of possibilities for this one. Can you show us some better pics of the blade? Also, what are the dimensions--overall length, blade length, etc.? The brass slug set into the spine of the blade suggests 20th C Thai manufacture, but more details of the blade will help. Ian.

13th April 2017, 12:22 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Ian is correct, Thai in origin, the engraving is the giveaway, would guess early 20th century. Nice complete piece, I would personally clean the blade. Regards, Detlef

13th April 2017, 02:17 PM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Hi again chief: Yes, this is a 20th C Thai daab. The engraved lines and "S" shaped markings are typical of post-WWII northern Thai work. If you look among the Classic Threads at the top of the Ethnographic Forum page, you will find a link to "Contemporary Thai swords" that has more information about these pieces. Ian

13th April 2017, 04:08 PM	#6
chiefheadknocker Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 143	Thanks for everyones help with this , your knowledge is much appretiated

13th April 2017, 05:40 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Hi Ian, I personally don't think that the daab in question is a post WWII example, the patina and workmanship let me think that it is to date between 1910-1940. Regards, Detlef

13th April 2017, 07:22 PM	#8
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,084	I agree with Detlef. The thick spine that is peaked or V shaped suggests a sword made for serious use and I would also date to the early part of the 20th century. Those later examples with S line markings lack the thickness and V shaped or peaked spine.

14th April 2017, 01:24 AM	#9
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Hi Detlef and Rick: Thanks for the comments on the quality of this sword. My previous comments were perhaps too cryptic, so let me expand on them. When speaking of the "S"-shaped marks on this blade as being post WWII, I was drawing on my own experience of swords that have been offered on the market for several decades. Typically, these marks were often applied randomly and have no particular meaning (according to one or two Thai collectors who have posted here previously)--blades marked in this manner were intended for the popular market rather than for use as a machete or general purpose sword/knife. The vast majority of these have poor quality blades, as I'm sure both of you know. Among those offered online, for example, it is very uncommon to find a reasonable quality blade with these particular markings applied in the manner of the sword shown above. One does certainly find decent, and possibly older, blades with a carefully engraved line of these "S"-shapes that forms a chain running adjacent to the spine of the blade, but not the stacks or clusters seen on late 20th C versions. The better quality blades are northern Thai/Lao in origin. Similar comments can be made about the thinly inscribed lines running adjacent to the spine of the blade. These, too, appear to have emerged as common decoration in the second half of the 20th C. Although earlier examples do occur, these are deeper, and in the nature of shallow fullers, compared with the more superficial scratches that are found in late 20th C examples. I agree with both of you that this appears to be a much better quality of blade than most of those bearing these marks. If the blade was cleaned and showed a hardened edge then it would be clearly a blade intended for use rather than display. The degree of oxidation on these blades depends so much on how they have been used and stored. Similarly, the amount of wear and "aging" on the scabbard depends on use and storage. However, we don't know whether this sword and scabbard started out together or are a later marriage, so the scabbard does not really help in dating the sword. Interestingly, the amount of wear on the hilt (which is quite good quality for its type) is minimal, suggesting little use. Could this sword be from the first half of the 20th C? Perhaps. But for me, the blade decoration is key to dating the sword, and that most likely points to the second half of the 20th C. The sword shown above appears to be a better quality sword than the vast majority of similar ones that were marketed heavily to US servicemen during the Vietnam war and to tourists to Thailand subsequently. Ian

15th April 2017, 09:26 PM	#16
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Yes, it look like this! Good simple Thai daab!

16th April 2017, 04:12 AM	#17
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Yes, that's a good quality blade. A typical working daab.