Persion Kard Knife for opinions...

dzyner · 7th February 2013, 05:23 PM

Hi all. I've had this in my collection for over a year now. It was included in a lot of edged weapons I purchased along with mostly WW2 era daggers and swords. My collecting interest is primarily WW1 and WW2 so I know little about these and thought I'd post it here for general opinions and feedback.

I'd also like to hear thoughts regarding the grip; is it bone or ivory, and from what animal? What about the leather scabbed? Any ideas on the hide used for this? The texture and color makes me think elephant, but what do I know

The forum rules are pretty tight when it comes to inquiring about value so I'll avoid that, but I am interested in hearing thoughts regarding a good outlet for something like this. Hopefully I'm not busting forum rules by asking that question - I think it's a perfectly legit question to ask on a forum personally. If the administrator feels this paragraph is a violation then please just remove it from my post. I certainly don't want to offend. I really just want this knife to go to a respectable home since it doesn't fit into my core collecting interest and I'm not doing it any good by allowing it to collect dust on a shelf.

Thanks!
Dzyner

Atlantia · 8th February 2013, 10:34 PM

Hi Dzyner
Welcome to the forums.
Your Kard is a very nice example. The blade is wootz and the hilt slabs appear to my eye to be made from Walrus ivory.
Congratulations, it's a good piece indeed.

Battara · 9th February 2013, 01:53 AM

I agree with Atlantia - the grips are walrus ivory. The scabbard is probably water buffalo hide. I would guess that this is from Persia. Great condition, including the wootz pattern and the gold koftgari.

Dom · 9th February 2013, 03:11 AM

Hello Dzyner
Welcome on board
Your Kard is a very nice example of Ottoman dagger, most probably from 19th century
The blade is Johar and the handle looks like Walrus ivory.
The scabbard is probably on a wooden body, covered with ray skin (galucha)
very decent edged weapon
all the best ans regards

à +

Dom

dzyner · 9th February 2013, 05:49 PM

Wow, thanks guys! This is great feedback, I'm glad I posted it here. I have this posted on other non-blade specific forums and the feedback is not nearly as educated so I appreciate it very much. I've been sitting on this thing for more than a year wondering just what it is and what its made of. Now I know!

I'd still love to hear thoughts from others so please keep the opinions coming

Thanks again!
Dzyner

Jens Nordlunde · 9th February 2013, 06:01 PM

Yes you have a very nice kard, and I love the pictures you have taken.
Jens

Atlantia · 9th February 2013, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzyner

Wow, thanks guys! This is great feedback, I'm glad I posted it here. I have this posted on other non-blade specific forums and the feedback is not nearly as educated so I appreciate it very much. I've been sitting on this thing for more than a year wondering just what it is and what its made of. Now I know!

I'd still love to hear thoughts from others so please keep the opinions coming

Thanks again!
Dzyner

HI Dyzner,

You should consider keeping it. It is a very good example that you'll struggle to easily replace.
It dates to the 19th century and I would classify it as 'indo-Persian'.
It shows strong Persian influence but the work especially on the spine makes me think Northern India/Afghanistan.

Congratulations on a lovely piece.

A little light oil on the rust on the blade would be an idea as it looks active.

Regards
Gene

Battara · 9th February 2013, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

Your Kard is a very nice example of Ottoman dagger, most probably from 19th century

Dom, I'm curious, what makes this Ottoman vs Persian?

Dom · 10th February 2013, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Dom, I'm curious, what makes this Ottoman vs Persian?

Hi Battara
Persian was more attracted by "jambiya", also,
they wasn't bother, to have human, animal representations, on theirs daggers, helmets and so ...
nevertheless, the blade is Indo-Persian,
his decor, is very simple, but very good taste
I have a "Kart" in my collection, with "johar" blade, also
it's even, more simple than the one shown here, it is Ottoman

pic attached;
- Ottoman "kart" it's the one on top
under
- Ottoman "pich-qàbz" (Uzbek - Bukhara)

best regards

à +

Dom

estcrh · 9th February 2013, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzyner

I am interested in hearing thoughts regarding a good outlet for something like this.

Dzyner, the forum has a "for sale" section or ebay, these would be the two places I would recommend.

RSWORD · 10th February 2013, 01:37 AM

Just a note that the scabbard is leather and not rayskin and most probably is ass/donkey skin. Many times these leathers are dyed green and have a bumpy surface and can be mistaken for rayskin but I'm confident in this example that it is leather. Not much to add to what everyone else has stated.

Dom · 10th February 2013, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

Just a note that the scabbard is leather and not rayskin and most probably is ass/donkey skin. Many times these leathers are dyed green and have a bumpy surface and can be mistaken for rayskin but I'm confident in this example that it is leather. Not much to add to what everyone else has stated.

Hi
why I thought to "ray skin" ?
- due to the skin's granular, which is very characteristic

- also because I have a yatagan which the scabbard is in "galucha" (ray skin)
and his original color is black ...

I looked for (google image), how looks like, the "ass/donkey skin",
but seems very confidential, didn't found a single pic
in the same time; galucha, or ray skin ... it's plenty

you have to take in your account that during 19th and 20th century,
the "galucha" was very fashionable, every men of quality (even the Ladies),
was having something in "galucha" for instance;
- cigarettes holder, also, the hilt of the swords was garnish in "galucha"

only, the military drums cover, was ...as far as I know made from "ass/donkey skin"

all the best

à +

Dom

7th February 2013, 05:23 PM	#1
dzyner Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 2	Persion Kard Knife for opinions... Hi all. I've had this in my collection for over a year now. It was included in a lot of edged weapons I purchased along with mostly WW2 era daggers and swords. My collecting interest is primarily WW1 and WW2 so I know little about these and thought I'd post it here for general opinions and feedback. I'd also like to hear thoughts regarding the grip; is it bone or ivory, and from what animal? What about the leather scabbed? Any ideas on the hide used for this? The texture and color makes me think elephant, but what do I know The forum rules are pretty tight when it comes to inquiring about value so I'll avoid that, but I am interested in hearing thoughts regarding a good outlet for something like this. Hopefully I'm not busting forum rules by asking that question - I think it's a perfectly legit question to ask on a forum personally. If the administrator feels this paragraph is a violation then please just remove it from my post. I certainly don't want to offend. I really just want this knife to go to a respectable home since it doesn't fit into my core collecting interest and I'm not doing it any good by allowing it to collect dust on a shelf. Thanks! Dzyner Attached Images

8th February 2013, 10:34 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Dzyner Welcome to the forums. Your Kard is a very nice example. The blade is wootz and the hilt slabs appear to my eye to be made from Walrus ivory. Congratulations, it's a good piece indeed.

9th February 2013, 01:53 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	I agree with Atlantia - the grips are walrus ivory. The scabbard is probably water buffalo hide. I would guess that this is from Persia. Great condition, including the wootz pattern and the gold koftgari.

9th February 2013, 03:11 AM	#4
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	Hello Dzyner Welcome on board Your Kard is a very nice example of Ottoman dagger, most probably from 19th century The blade is Johar and the handle looks like Walrus ivory. The scabbard is probably on a wooden body, covered with ray skin (galucha) very decent edged weapon all the best ans regards à + Dom

9th February 2013, 05:49 PM	#5
dzyner Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 2	Wow, thanks guys! This is great feedback, I'm glad I posted it here. I have this posted on other non-blade specific forums and the feedback is not nearly as educated so I appreciate it very much. I've been sitting on this thing for more than a year wondering just what it is and what its made of. Now I know! I'd still love to hear thoughts from others so please keep the opinions coming Thanks again! Dzyner

9th February 2013, 06:01 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Yes you have a very nice kard, and I love the pictures you have taken. Jens

10th February 2013, 01:37 AM	#11
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,084	Just a note that the scabbard is leather and not rayskin and most probably is ass/donkey skin. Many times these leathers are dyed green and have a bumpy surface and can be mistaken for rayskin but I'm confident in this example that it is leather. Not much to add to what everyone else has stated.