An engraved Kaskara For discussion and a question

efrahjalt · 9th September 2023, 10:05 PM

Hi All,

I am the happy new owner of this piece. It has the sun moon and star engravings that I have read are associated with European trade blades of the 16th & 17th century. Pieces I have seen like this before have the moon below the cross followed by the sun, and then the star(s). This one has four symbols with an extra star just below the guard engraved on both sides. I didn't see the 2nd star at first because there is slightly more corrosion pitting in that location and it's obscured by the languet, but it's there. Does the extra symbol have any significance? I'd love to learn more about these blades and the symbols. Any info/comments are welcome.

Ok, now for the question. As you can see, this piece has been the victim of an unfortunate restoration. I'm a skilled craftsman and I'd like to restore the grip, but I will only attempt it if I can do it right so it exactly matches the original material and construction. I'm looking for help with any information on the construction of Kaskara hilts. What type of leather are they made of? How is the leather wrapped to secure the pommel? Is the pommel entirely wrapped/layered leather, or is there some kind of core inside? Detailed pictures of other examples would be helpful, especially if they are coming apart slightly so the construction is more obvious. Any help is welcome here.

Thanks for reading and commenting!

Jim McDougall · 10th September 2023, 12:32 AM

That is a wonderful blade, but as noted, the addition of a hilt which has nothing to do with kaskara's. The pommels were discoid and depending on period etc. there were peculiarities. Typically on Mahdiyya period examples it was a simple wooden disc

The first example is from Mahdiyya period 1883-1898, and believed to have been produced in Omdurman arsenal shops with the acid etched thuluth calligraphy. These seem to often have brass guards contrary to the typical kaskara. The wood grip has a disc over which the leather is tightly wrapped. I cannot recall for sure but may be goatskin. There was an article on one of these conserved in a museum but must see if I can relocate. Possibly Ed will come in as he has the most insight on these details.

The next is a simple example which is most likely early 20th c. but the basic wood disc is wider as with the 'Ali Dinar' period (post Omdurman, 1898-1914) style. These are typically associated with Darfur as the next example, and these seem to often have these European 'astral' symbolic blades which are regarded as German and perhaps Styrian produced in 18th century. There seem to have been numbers of these kinds of blades brought into Sudan just pre Mahdiyya and in circulation.

The next example is the 'Ali Dinar' type (Reed, 1987) and with silver work, crocodile grip, note the large disc.
These continued being made well into the 20th century as per the outstanding paper by Ed Hunley which is archived here.

So restoration of this sword blade to proper Sudanese circumstance might be best considered with these examples to give perspective. As with the 2nd example it does seem that simple wood hilt with leather wrap covering in strips probably goat? hide would be workable, but these type blades seem to have been more aligned with the Darfur types of sword.

The next example with crocodile foot hilt (scabbard is the hide) is with a guard similar to those shown in Reed ('87) with Darfur types. Note the astral blade very similar to yours. In my opinion these were most likely related to weapons used by slavers which were prevalent in south Darfur regions, and from these blades circulating in Darfur.

These are my own opinions on these particulars and I hope they will bring some further discussion and comment as others might have different thoughts or information.

werecow · 10th September 2023, 01:50 PM

At least some of these pommels consisted of rolled up strips of leather, rather than a wooden disc, see my own, somewhat worn example below.

Edster · 10th September 2023, 04:02 PM

Wonderful blade almost identical markings as on one of Jim's shown. I can't add much to what Jim has said.

The kaskara treatment Jim mentioned is here:

https://docplayer.net/65002678-Techn...ara-sword.html

Your blade is of the quality that would no doubt had a silver covered grip and pommel so a strip wrap would not be period/culturally correct, but would be better than the existing one which is neither.

Also, I think I mentioned grip/hilt attachment & coverings with some illustrative pics in the attached paper archived in the forum's Geographical Index.

http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/...ara_guards.pdf

Best,
Ed

efrahjalt · 14th September 2023, 04:04 PM

Thanks all for the comments and great info. Sorry for the late reply.

excellent breakdown of the hilt and blade types. This gave me some new eyes as I looked for other examples. Wile digging up other kaskara examples with similar celestial symbols I found a few different hilt types. Some examples had earlier Mahdiyya period (I think) smaller pommels (almost like a swell at the back of the grip instead of a distinct pommel disc. Others appeared to have newer style grips which makes we think they were possibly re-gripped. I can imagine the organic grips were not durable of a long period and I can see them being re-wrapped in the new style frequently. Much less barer to reworking than say a European blade with an iron pommel riveted in place. Given these blades are though to come from the 18c (correction from my original post where I got the dates wrong). I wonder if an older style grip is most appropriate here. Also, I'd like to know what the cross guard style can tell us about age. Perhaps that may be a better indicator. Of course it could be changed too or altered, but it perhaps is more likely to remain unchanged compared to the grip wrapping. Lost of speculation here, so please correct me if I'm getting off track.

Great shot of the pommel. It almost looks like the leather from the grip section is pulled over the back of the wrapped strips of leather from the inside to hold it all together. This is worn off, except in once section, of your example exposing the wrapped strips. It's a little hard to see where that is coming from. Do you think I'm interpreting it correctly? I have seen similar features on other examples.

werecow · 15th September 2023, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by efrahjalt

Great shot of the pommel. It almost looks like the leather from the grip section is pulled over the back of the wrapped strips of leather from the inside to hold it all together. This is worn off, except in once section, of your example exposing the wrapped strips. It's a little hard to see where that is coming from. Do you think I'm interpreting it correctly? I have seen similar features on other examples.

It's a little hard to say even with the sword in hand but I think it indeed covered the entire pommel section and has partially worn away (from someone walking around with their hand resting on it?). Part of the remainder has come slightly detached. I've attached a few more pictures (including some from the seller as he had better lighting).

It is a little hard to say how it was supposed to look, but I have another, smaller example with a thuluth blade that has a different grip cover style in which the leather straps cover the whole grip (see last few pictures).

In that second one the pommel is entirely encased in a leather cap, but I think it's likely that it is a similar pommel made of leather underneath. So my guess is that was the case for the big one as well, and the whole top half of the grip and pommel were basically encased in a leather "jacket" that as you can see seems to be stitched closed, of which the top has now worn away.

EDIT: Matt Easton talks a bit about the grips and pommels on these in this video where he also notes that the pommel on his example is a leather strip like in my example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVw1Ky_21Is

Jim McDougall · 15th September 2023, 02:05 PM

These are great examples!

I think it would be hard to follow a distinct 'pattern' or style as far as restoring a grip and pommel on a kaskara without the actual original assembly present in at least some degree. In the Sudan, these often heirloom blades circulated for many generations and were often remounted as hilts deteriorated or perhaps the weapon changed hands.

As typically the case, the workers mounting these swords had varying conventions on the assembly and materials for the hilts, and there were numerous variables factored in. While a basic style of course existed in its simplicity, it seems possible, if not likely, certain regions might use particular materials based on availability or perhaps even local favor. Without set regulation or consistency, the obvious goal was pragmatic in a hilt which functioned well in handling of the sword.

Certain regions such as Darfur, had the post Mahdiyya styling using embossed silver and the totemic crocodile hide segments, with filagree discoid pommels.

The example shown here with brass cross guard is clearly a Mahdiyya period kaskara, and the acid etched thuluth in most unusual panels and arrangements, a most intriguing example!

I very much agree with Ed (post #4), the blade here is likely from a Darfur oriented context, as these areas seem the most consistent with European 'astral' themed blades. It probably became a victim of being altered to approximate a crusaders sword, as described by Oakeshott where, 'many kaskaras fell victim to this endeavor'.

These blades seem to have come into Sudan in 19th century from blades in Germany and Eastern Europe, probably during the presence of Gordon and von Slatin there just prior to the Mahdiyya, when von Slatin was appointed to Darfur.

In my post #2, examples 3 and 4 are both in my opinion from Darfur regions, and the crocodile covered one is with this same type blade. Clearly the mounting in crocodile is an anomaly which was consistent with slaving factions operating in southern Darfur late in 19th c.

As Ed has suggested, it is probably best to stay with the simpler strip leather wrapped grip with leather wrapped disc pommel as seen in variation with the examples shown. It is entirely feasible that these blades remained circulating in Sudan post Omdurman, and might have been mounted there in this manner in the years following in the Anglo-Egyptian Condominium.

efrahjalt · 15th September 2023, 03:31 PM

Thanks all again for the additional pictures, info, and comments. I'd forgotten about that Matt Easton video, but the hilt of his example has a very similar cross, and I can see that the grip tapers toward the back like the wood core of mine does. This is somewhat offset by the leather being worn away near the guard and still present near the pommel, but you can still see the tapering beneath. His may be a good example to try and emulate in my reconstruction. In a couple shots it looked like there was a covering over the back that is partially worn away and slightly loose, but he doesn't really show it and the video resolution is not good enough to see it well.

Jim, you have confirmed my suspicions that these were remounted often and an original form for this particular example may not really be a thing, or at least not possible to put a finger on. Your examples will help me go in the right direction though.

Mine has certainly been altered, but I think the alteration is more minor that it may seem from the pictures. It is not an entirely new hilt. I can see that the original core actually seems very much intact and complete. There are remnants of the original leather and glue under the upper languets. The only addition is an off the shelf wooden ball from a craft store that has been sloppily glued to the end of the existing wood. I'll get a close up picture to share before I cut it off this weekend.

One reason I think that my example was likely a leather strip wrap (at least in it's last incarnation of a kaskara hilt) instead of a wood pommel with silver or other decorative wrap is I can sill see the nail hole in the wood that would have held the strips in place in the same way as werecow's example. I'll grab a better picture of this to share too.

Thanks again for the great images and info. Keep it coming. I'm think I'm getting close. I'd love to see some more examples of the pommel cover construction.

werecow · 15th September 2023, 10:31 PM

Thanks for your thoughts Jim. If anyone is interested one of these days I'll post some more pictures of the thuluth kaskara on a separate (or more appropriate) thread so as not to derail this one too much.

As for the example in the OP: What efrahjalt says makes a lot of sense. Given that, as Matt points out, the leather often rots away, if the grip cover and pommel were both indeed entirely leather as you say, then the original wooden grip was probably retained and only the missing pommel was replaced by someone who didn't know what it was supposed to look like.

Edster · 16th September 2023, 03:58 AM

As I understand it, the end of the wooden grip is wedged between the blade and the interior space of the cross guard to lock the pieces together. The grip on the subject sword appears to just abut the cross guard and is held in place by the grip pin. To my knowledge, locally made blade did not have a in hole in the tang and this may be why the blade-grip=cross guard structure was developed to hold all parts together securely.

Also, a native wooden grip was of the same diameter throughout. A taper toward the top would defeat a secure grip by sweaty hands.

A finished & serviceable sword left the smith with a secured smooth wooden grip (no cap). The new owner took it to a leather worker or a silver smith to finish it off as personal taste, intended use and relative wealth dictated.

Best,
Ed

9th September 2023, 10:05 PM	#1
efrahjalt Member Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 40	An engraved Kaskara For discussion and a question Hi All, I am the happy new owner of this piece. It has the sun moon and star engravings that I have read are associated with European trade blades of the 16th & 17th century. Pieces I have seen like this before have the moon below the cross followed by the sun, and then the star(s). This one has four symbols with an extra star just below the guard engraved on both sides. I didn't see the 2nd star at first because there is slightly more corrosion pitting in that location and it's obscured by the languet, but it's there. Does the extra symbol have any significance? I'd love to learn more about these blades and the symbols. Any info/comments are welcome. Ok, now for the question. As you can see, this piece has been the victim of an unfortunate restoration. I'm a skilled craftsman and I'd like to restore the grip, but I will only attempt it if I can do it right so it exactly matches the original material and construction. I'm looking for help with any information on the construction of Kaskara hilts. What type of leather are they made of? How is the leather wrapped to secure the pommel? Is the pommel entirely wrapped/layered leather, or is there some kind of core inside? Detailed pictures of other examples would be helpful, especially if they are coming apart slightly so the construction is more obvious. Any help is welcome here. Thanks for reading and commenting! Attached Images

10th September 2023, 01:50 PM	#3
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 500	At least some of these pommels consisted of rolled up strips of leather, rather than a wooden disc, see my own, somewhat worn example below. Attached Images

15th September 2023, 02:05 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	These are great examples! I think it would be hard to follow a distinct 'pattern' or style as far as restoring a grip and pommel on a kaskara without the actual original assembly present in at least some degree. In the Sudan, these often heirloom blades circulated for many generations and were often remounted as hilts deteriorated or perhaps the weapon changed hands. As typically the case, the workers mounting these swords had varying conventions on the assembly and materials for the hilts, and there were numerous variables factored in. While a basic style of course existed in its simplicity, it seems possible, if not likely, certain regions might use particular materials based on availability or perhaps even local favor. Without set regulation or consistency, the obvious goal was pragmatic in a hilt which functioned well in handling of the sword. Certain regions such as Darfur, had the post Mahdiyya styling using embossed silver and the totemic crocodile hide segments, with filagree discoid pommels. The example shown here with brass cross guard is clearly a Mahdiyya period kaskara, and the acid etched thuluth in most unusual panels and arrangements, a most intriguing example! I very much agree with Ed (post #4), the blade here is likely from a Darfur oriented context, as these areas seem the most consistent with European 'astral' themed blades. It probably became a victim of being altered to approximate a crusaders sword, as described by Oakeshott where, 'many kaskaras fell victim to this endeavor'. These blades seem to have come into Sudan in 19th century from blades in Germany and Eastern Europe, probably during the presence of Gordon and von Slatin there just prior to the Mahdiyya, when von Slatin was appointed to Darfur. In my post #2, examples 3 and 4 are both in my opinion from Darfur regions, and the crocodile covered one is with this same type blade. Clearly the mounting in crocodile is an anomaly which was consistent with slaving factions operating in southern Darfur late in 19th c. As Ed has suggested, it is probably best to stay with the simpler strip leather wrapped grip with leather wrapped disc pommel as seen in variation with the examples shown. It is entirely feasible that these blades remained circulating in Sudan post Omdurman, and might have been mounted there in this manner in the years following in the Anglo-Egyptian Condominium. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 15th September 2023 at 02:27 PM.

10th September 2023, 12:32 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	That is a wonderful blade, but as noted, the addition of a hilt which has nothing to do with kaskara's. The pommels were discoid and depending on period etc. there were peculiarities. Typically on Mahdiyya period examples it was a simple wooden disc The first example is from Mahdiyya period 1883-1898, and believed to have been produced in Omdurman arsenal shops with the acid etched thuluth calligraphy. These seem to often have brass guards contrary to the typical kaskara. The wood grip has a disc over which the leather is tightly wrapped. I cannot recall for sure but may be goatskin. There was an article on one of these conserved in a museum but must see if I can relocate. Possibly Ed will come in as he has the most insight on these details. The next is a simple example which is most likely early 20th c. but the basic wood disc is wider as with the 'Ali Dinar' period (post Omdurman, 1898-1914) style. These are typically associated with Darfur as the next example, and these seem to often have these European 'astral' symbolic blades which are regarded as German and perhaps Styrian produced in 18th century. There seem to have been numbers of these kinds of blades brought into Sudan just pre Mahdiyya and in circulation. The next example is the 'Ali Dinar' type (Reed, 1987) and with silver work, crocodile grip, note the large disc. These continued being made well into the 20th century as per the outstanding paper by Ed Hunley which is archived here. So restoration of this sword blade to proper Sudanese circumstance might be best considered with these examples to give perspective. As with the 2nd example it does seem that simple wood hilt with leather wrap covering in strips probably goat? hide would be workable, but these type blades seem to have been more aligned with the Darfur types of sword. The next example with crocodile foot hilt (scabbard is the hide) is with a guard similar to those shown in Reed ('87) with Darfur types. Note the astral blade very similar to yours. In my opinion these were most likely related to weapons used by slavers which were prevalent in south Darfur regions, and from these blades circulating in Darfur. These are my own opinions on these particulars and I hope they will bring some further discussion and comment as others might have different thoughts or information. Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 10th September 2023 at 01:06 AM.

10th September 2023, 04:02 PM	#4
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 408	Wonderful blade almost identical markings as on one of Jim's shown. I can't add much to what Jim has said. The kaskara treatment Jim mentioned is here: https://docplayer.net/65002678-Techn...ara-sword.html Your blade is of the quality that would no doubt had a silver covered grip and pommel so a strip wrap would not be period/culturally correct, but would be better than the existing one which is neither. Also, I think I mentioned grip/hilt attachment & coverings with some illustrative pics in the attached paper archived in the forum's Geographical Index. http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/...ara_guards.pdf Best, Ed

14th September 2023, 04:04 PM	#5
efrahjalt Member Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 40	Thanks all for the comments and great info. Sorry for the late reply. excellent breakdown of the hilt and blade types. This gave me some new eyes as I looked for other examples. Wile digging up other kaskara examples with similar celestial symbols I found a few different hilt types. Some examples had earlier Mahdiyya period (I think) smaller pommels (almost like a swell at the back of the grip instead of a distinct pommel disc. Others appeared to have newer style grips which makes we think they were possibly re-gripped. I can imagine the organic grips were not durable of a long period and I can see them being re-wrapped in the new style frequently. Much less barer to reworking than say a European blade with an iron pommel riveted in place. Given these blades are though to come from the 18c (correction from my original post where I got the dates wrong). I wonder if an older style grip is most appropriate here. Also, I'd like to know what the cross guard style can tell us about age. Perhaps that may be a better indicator. Of course it could be changed too or altered, but it perhaps is more likely to remain unchanged compared to the grip wrapping. Lost of speculation here, so please correct me if I'm getting off track. Great shot of the pommel. It almost looks like the leather from the grip section is pulled over the back of the wrapped strips of leather from the inside to hold it all together. This is worn off, except in once section, of your example exposing the wrapped strips. It's a little hard to see where that is coming from. Do you think I'm interpreting it correctly? I have seen similar features on other examples.

15th September 2023, 03:31 PM	#8
efrahjalt Member Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 40	Thanks all again for the additional pictures, info, and comments. I'd forgotten about that Matt Easton video, but the hilt of his example has a very similar cross, and I can see that the grip tapers toward the back like the wood core of mine does. This is somewhat offset by the leather being worn away near the guard and still present near the pommel, but you can still see the tapering beneath. His may be a good example to try and emulate in my reconstruction. In a couple shots it looked like there was a covering over the back that is partially worn away and slightly loose, but he doesn't really show it and the video resolution is not good enough to see it well. Jim, you have confirmed my suspicions that these were remounted often and an original form for this particular example may not really be a thing, or at least not possible to put a finger on. Your examples will help me go in the right direction though. Mine has certainly been altered, but I think the alteration is more minor that it may seem from the pictures. It is not an entirely new hilt. I can see that the original core actually seems very much intact and complete. There are remnants of the original leather and glue under the upper languets. The only addition is an off the shelf wooden ball from a craft store that has been sloppily glued to the end of the existing wood. I'll get a close up picture to share before I cut it off this weekend. One reason I think that my example was likely a leather strip wrap (at least in it's last incarnation of a kaskara hilt) instead of a wood pommel with silver or other decorative wrap is I can sill see the nail hole in the wood that would have held the strips in place in the same way as werecow's example. I'll grab a better picture of this to share too. Thanks again for the great images and info. Keep it coming. I'm think I'm getting close. I'd love to see some more examples of the pommel cover construction.

15th September 2023, 10:31 PM	#9
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 500	Thanks for your thoughts Jim. If anyone is interested one of these days I'll post some more pictures of the thuluth kaskara on a separate (or more appropriate) thread so as not to derail this one too much. As for the example in the OP: What efrahjalt says makes a lot of sense. Given that, as Matt points out, the leather often rots away, if the grip cover and pommel were both indeed entirely leather as you say, then the original wooden grip was probably retained and only the missing pommel was replaced by someone who didn't know what it was supposed to look like.

16th September 2023, 03:58 AM	#10
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 408	As I understand it, the end of the wooden grip is wedged between the blade and the interior space of the cross guard to lock the pieces together. The grip on the subject sword appears to just abut the cross guard and is held in place by the grip pin. To my knowledge, locally made blade did not have a in hole in the tang and this may be why the blade-grip=cross guard structure was developed to hold all parts together securely. Also, a native wooden grip was of the same diameter throughout. A taper toward the top would defeat a secure grip by sweaty hands. A finished & serviceable sword left the smith with a secured smooth wooden grip (no cap). The new owner took it to a leather worker or a silver smith to finish it off as personal taste, intended use and relative wealth dictated. Best, Ed