unique patterned blade

JPSF · 18th February 2005, 04:00 AM

This is one beautiful hanshee and Phil Tom is responsible for bringing out the pattern which was barely visible. Have any of you ever seen a pattern like this?

Yannis · 18th February 2005, 08:44 AM

Amazing! How old is this beauty?

Justin · 18th February 2005, 03:32 PM

Gorgeous knife! The answer is NO I have not seen a pattern like that before,I havent even seen anything similar in modern custom knives much less on an antique,but if the smiths had the knowlewdge to make damascus at all then it would have been quite possible for them to have made any pattern they wanted.
I read about an English/American colonist who was a blacksmith in the 18th century and he did quite a bit of experimentation with making different damascus patterns. Supposedly he got to the point where he could produce billets with readable sentences and words in them......

RSWORD · 18th February 2005, 03:41 PM

Absolutely georgeous blade. The pattern welded effect looks quite deliberate and controlled. Is the blade a tripartite construction? There is a clear line of demarcation between the edge and the body. Perhaps a high carbon edge with softer cheeks sandwhiched around it? I have never seen anything just like it but the closest would be to some Indian pattern welded blades. Phil has some magical concoctions to bring out patterns doesn't he!

tom hyle · 18th February 2005, 03:44 PM

Lovely; wonderful craftsmanship. Looks like pines and/or snowy, pointy mountains.

Jens Nordlunde · 18th February 2005, 05:26 PM

This quite fantastic and unusual, if not unique as I think it is. I must agree with the others who have posted – no I have never seen anything like it. How old is it? Thank you for posting.

Jens

Ferguson · 18th February 2005, 07:24 PM

My goodness. That is incredible.

Steve

Conogre · 18th February 2005, 08:11 PM

Wow! That's an unbelievable combination of smithing and artistry, true painting with a forge and hammer.
I too would love to know the age and origin of the piece.
Mike

Ian · 18th February 2005, 08:21 PM

Please tell us more about this piece and how you acquired it. Wonderful find.

sirupate · 19th February 2005, 12:09 AM

Hello JPSF,

That really is a superb Hanshee, been trying to get blades made in that style in Nepal for several years now, but the Kami can't quite do it yet, just about got them to make good quality military models of the past, so there is hope yet

Simon, Tora Kukri Supplies www.toratoratora.co.uk

JPSF · 19th February 2005, 01:33 AM

Details: a hanshee from c1770-1820, very well made dark red (once upon a time)velvet covered scabbard with beautifully chiselled and pierced silver chape and locket, elaborate sangli remarkable polished chandan grip, the kalti and its tinder pouch are decorated with silver thread.
17.5" o/a.

I didn't find it, it found me via a very good friend.

the whole rig

Andrew · 19th February 2005, 03:17 AM

A very good friend, indeed, JP! Outstanding kuk. Thanks for sharing it with us.

BSMStar · 19th February 2005, 03:50 AM

Looking at the pattern on this beautiful blade reminds me of a "lightly" forged Widmanstatten structure. Did Phil Tom use an acid blend like Aqua Regia (a mixture of hydrochloric acid and nitric acid) to bring out this pattern?

BSMStar

LabanTayo · 19th February 2005, 03:53 AM

WOW!!!!!
beautiful piece. congrats and what a great friend.

JPSF · 19th February 2005, 04:23 AM

I think Phil uses a very secret formula and techniques. If you ply him with demon rum at the EEWRS get together in a few weeks maybe he'll talk.

Yes, this is a very good friend but it doesn't mean that large amounts of cash weren't involved.

If you want to see more kukris you can check out www.kukris.net

The site has a long way to go, but it's a start.

sirupate · 19th February 2005, 09:22 PM

JP is that the original scabbard?
Cheers Simon

Mark · 19th February 2005, 10:47 PM

Gorgeous. It goes without saying. As for the pattern, from looking at it I am going to venture a guess that it was made by braiding wire of two or more different types of steel, then bending it back and forth in a series of tight S curves and forging the whole thing together. You can see both the braided pattern, and the S turns near the eges. I know it sounds like it would be a very weak ingot, but I has seen some pretty damn amazing things done with pattern welding, notably by "Grandpa" Daryl Meier.

http://www.meiersteel.com/main.html

tom hyle · 20th February 2005, 02:38 AM

The pattern may only be on the outside of a sandwich type blade?

Mark · 20th February 2005, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hyle

The pattern may only be on the outside of a sandwich type blade?

Very good point. It does look at the edges like there is an homogenous inner layer.

JPSF · 21st February 2005, 08:42 PM

Check with Philip Tom about the composition of the blade. He repolished it and knows a lot more about patterned steel than I do.

The scabbard is original as are the kalti, karda and chakmak. The sangli which is actually the carry belt has been restored.

Philip · 22nd February 2005, 08:01 AM

The blade consists of a homogenous, high-carbon center plate (which forms the cutting edge when exposed by grinding the V-shaped edge bevel) flanked on each side by "cheeks" of the pattern-welded laminate. I'm still trying to figure out how the alternative fern-leaf patterns were done. A previous post mentioned the likelihood that such a pattern might be susceptible to lateral stresses, compared to simple linear lamination. The beauty of sandwiching a hard steel core between laminates is that you get a lot of structural support, and are free to do wild patterns like this on the outer plates without fear of sacrificing strength.

This tripartite assembly is widely used in the Orient. It's called sanmai in Japanese, sanmei in Chinese. I've seen it on Moro campillions and krises, on mandaus, and so forth.

What the photos don't show on this hanshee is the heat treat details. When viewed from a particular angle, this blade has a slightly darkened zone along the edge, just over 1/2 in. wide at most. The smith heated up the edge portion in his forge, and then quenched it in water. The dark zone represents the crystallization of the steel into the molecular structure which makes the edge harder than the rest of the blade, which stays somewhat softer, avoiding the tendency towards brittleness.

tom hyle · 22nd February 2005, 10:31 AM

My experience of kukuris, while limitted, is that they are differentially hardened in much this way.

18th February 2005, 04:00 AM	#1
JPSF Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 56	unique patterned blade This is one beautiful hanshee and Phil Tom is responsible for bringing out the pattern which was barely visible. Have any of you ever seen a pattern like this?

18th February 2005, 08:21 PM	#9
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Just beautiful John Please tell us more about this piece and how you acquired it. Wonderful find.

19th February 2005, 03:50 AM	#13
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Possible Meteoric..... Looking at the pattern on this beautiful blade reminds me of a "lightly" forged Widmanstatten structure. Did Phil Tom use an acid blend like Aqua Regia (a mixture of hydrochloric acid and nitric acid) to bring out this pattern? BSMStar

22nd February 2005, 08:01 AM	#21
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	composition of blade The blade consists of a homogenous, high-carbon center plate (which forms the cutting edge when exposed by grinding the V-shaped edge bevel) flanked on each side by "cheeks" of the pattern-welded laminate. I'm still trying to figure out how the alternative fern-leaf patterns were done. A previous post mentioned the likelihood that such a pattern might be susceptible to lateral stresses, compared to simple linear lamination. The beauty of sandwiching a hard steel core between laminates is that you get a lot of structural support, and are free to do wild patterns like this on the outer plates without fear of sacrificing strength. This tripartite assembly is widely used in the Orient. It's called sanmai in Japanese, sanmei in Chinese. I've seen it on Moro campillions and krises, on mandaus, and so forth. What the photos don't show on this hanshee is the heat treat details. When viewed from a particular angle, this blade has a slightly darkened zone along the edge, just over 1/2 in. wide at most. The smith heated up the edge portion in his forge, and then quenched it in water. The dark zone represents the crystallization of the steel into the molecular structure which makes the edge harder than the rest of the blade, which stays somewhat softer, avoiding the tendency towards brittleness.

18th February 2005, 08:44 AM	#2
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Amazing! How old is this beauty?

18th February 2005, 03:32 PM	#3
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 175	Gorgeous knife! The answer is NO I have not seen a pattern like that before,I havent even seen anything similar in modern custom knives much less on an antique,but if the smiths had the knowlewdge to make damascus at all then it would have been quite possible for them to have made any pattern they wanted. I read about an English/American colonist who was a blacksmith in the 18th century and he did quite a bit of experimentation with making different damascus patterns. Supposedly he got to the point where he could produce billets with readable sentences and words in them......

18th February 2005, 03:41 PM	#4
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Absolutely georgeous blade. The pattern welded effect looks quite deliberate and controlled. Is the blade a tripartite construction? There is a clear line of demarcation between the edge and the body. Perhaps a high carbon edge with softer cheeks sandwhiched around it? I have never seen anything just like it but the closest would be to some Indian pattern welded blades. Phil has some magical concoctions to bring out patterns doesn't he!

18th February 2005, 03:44 PM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Lovely; wonderful craftsmanship. Looks like pines and/or snowy, pointy mountains.

18th February 2005, 05:26 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	This quite fantastic and unusual, if not unique as I think it is. I must agree with the others who have posted – no I have never seen anything like it. How old is it? Thank you for posting. Jens

18th February 2005, 07:24 PM	#7
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	My goodness. That is incredible. Steve

18th February 2005, 08:11 PM	#8
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Wow! That's an unbelievable combination of smithing and artistry, true painting with a forge and hammer. I too would love to know the age and origin of the piece. Mike

19th February 2005, 12:09 AM	#10
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	Hello JPSF, That really is a superb Hanshee, been trying to get blades made in that style in Nepal for several years now, but the Kami can't quite do it yet, just about got them to make good quality military models of the past, so there is hope yet Simon, Tora Kukri Supplies www.toratoratora.co.uk

19th February 2005, 01:33 AM	#11
JPSF Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 56	Details: a hanshee from c1770-1820, very well made dark red (once upon a time)velvet covered scabbard with beautifully chiselled and pierced silver chape and locket, elaborate sangli remarkable polished chandan grip, the kalti and its tinder pouch are decorated with silver thread. 17.5" o/a. I didn't find it, it found me via a very good friend. the whole rig

19th February 2005, 03:17 AM	#12
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	A very good friend, indeed, JP! Outstanding kuk. Thanks for sharing it with us.

19th February 2005, 03:53 AM	#14
LabanTayo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 177	WOW!!!!! beautiful piece. congrats and what a great friend.

19th February 2005, 04:23 AM	#15
JPSF Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 56	I think Phil uses a very secret formula and techniques. If you ply him with demon rum at the EEWRS get together in a few weeks maybe he'll talk. Yes, this is a very good friend but it doesn't mean that large amounts of cash weren't involved. If you want to see more kukris you can check out www.kukris.net The site has a long way to go, but it's a start.

19th February 2005, 09:22 PM	#16
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	JP is that the original scabbard? Cheers Simon

19th February 2005, 10:47 PM	#17
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Gorgeous. It goes without saying. As for the pattern, from looking at it I am going to venture a guess that it was made by braiding wire of two or more different types of steel, then bending it back and forth in a series of tight S curves and forging the whole thing together. You can see both the braided pattern, and the S turns near the eges. I know it sounds like it would be a very weak ingot, but I has seen some pretty damn amazing things done with pattern welding, notably by "Grandpa" Daryl Meier. http://www.meiersteel.com/main.html

20th February 2005, 02:38 AM	#18
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	The pattern may only be on the outside of a sandwich type blade?

21st February 2005, 08:42 PM	#20
JPSF Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 56	Check with Philip Tom about the composition of the blade. He repolished it and knows a lot more about patterned steel than I do. The scabbard is original as are the kalti, karda and chakmak. The sangli which is actually the carry belt has been restored.

22nd February 2005, 10:31 AM	#22
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	My experience of kukuris, while limitted, is that they are differentially hardened in much this way.