Where's this from?

[DaveF]

I picked up this pretty basic knife last week and have posted it up here in the hope that someone will be able to tell me where it's from. I'm guessing somewhere in Indonesia. The handle is wood, with what looks like a copper ferrule. The scabbard is hardwood with copper bands. Any information will be most gratefully received.

[Sajen]

Hello Dave,

I think you have a Batak Lopah Petawaran there, see here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=Petawaran & http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=batak
There seems to missing something at the handle.

Best regards,
Detlef

[kai]

Hello Dave,

Thanks for posting this variant!

It's Batak and judging from the scabbard and overall appearance, I'd guess it originates from the PakPak/Karo border region.

The blade seems to be a Lopah Petawaran variant (or closely related type) as discussed in this thread.

Your wooden hilt is unusual - looks old and legit though! I'd guess it's an attempt to carve the variant hilt type with exposed tang from wood.

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Uummm, on a second thought, I retract my identification - damned royal units!

The scale you show is in inches, isn't it? Could you provide length of the blade and max. thickness at the base, please?

My comment on origin stands. However, instead of a LP with mainly ceremonial function, this seems to be more of an EDC utility knife with a short variant of a basic taka blade (as also common in the longer kalasan swords). Close-ups of the hilt and base of the scabbard would be good!

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Yup, Kai is correct, it's to long for a Lopah Petawaran!

[DaveF]

Thank you Detlef and Kai for your most helpful comments.

My apologies for the inches, Kai. The measurements you requested are: Length of blade - 25cm, max. thickness at base - 6mm.

As I said before, the knife is very basic and it certainly seems more utility than ceremonial to me (unless the ceremony is very low-key!). Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know what EDC means (every day cooking?). There's a nice patina to the wood so I assume it's been handled a lot.

Kind regards,


Dave

Anyway, here are the extra photos you requested, with apologies for the quality:

[Sajen]

Hello Dave,

by a blade length from 25 cm it is for sure a Lopah Petawaran, a very nice piece and I have to withdraw my previous comment that there is something missing at the handle, it don't look like this but there is still the possibility that there was once a longer extention attached at the end from the handle.
The handle isn't from wood IMVHO, look like horn or akar bahar, how is the feel in hand, warm or colder?
Look to this two threads: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=Petawaran
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...opah+petawaran

Regards,
Detlef

[kai]

Hello Dave,

As I said before, the knife is very basic and it certainly seems more utility than ceremonial to me (unless the ceremony is very low-key!).

The region I'm leaning to as an origin for this piece was pretty poor with small settlements of only very few houses (while other Batak areas were quite rich); some of the ceremonial LPs (evidently worn by spiritual leaders only) are also quite basic.

Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know what EDC means (every day cooking?). There's a nice patina to the wood so I assume it's been handled a lot.

Every day carry - which, I suppose, includes cooking for at least a part of any population...

Yes, the blade is sturdy and has genuine age to it as do the fittings; the piece may well be antique (tough to tell - the carving is less refined than in many Batak utility pieces). The brass(?) bands of the scabbard may be later replacements (usually braided rattan rings with most utility pieces).

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Detlef,

by a blade length from 25 cm it is for sure a Lopah Petawaran, a very nice piece and I have to withdraw my previous comment that there is something missing at the handle, it don't look like this but there is still the possibility that there was once a longer extention attached at the end from the handle.

Nah, not a LP!

You could argue that there is a kind of continuum between typical LPs (blade with bolster), variant LPs (simple blade without bolster), knifes with simple blades (and more acute tips), and small kalasan (with typical taka blades and sigmoid cutting edge). LPs usually have blade tips that are steeply angled towards the back (aka tanto tip style); however, old, worn LP blades often exhibit more acute knife-like tips and, thus, blurring the distinction.

However, looking at the whole evidence including blade, hilt, and scabbard, I feel confident that this is not a ceremonial LP (variant)...

The handle isn't from wood IMVHO, look like horn or akar bahar, how is the feel in hand, warm or colder?

Horn is a likely possibility. From the carving, I don't see any hints for AB though.

Regards,
Kai

[DaveF]

Yes, the handle is horn Thank you both for putting me straight on that. Also, there are faint darker rings on the scabbard supporting your suggestion of an earlier rattan binding, Kai.

Regards,


Dave

[DaveF]

And thanks again, Detlef and Kai, for sharing your knowledge.

[ACP]

IMHO sir, this is a rencong variant. The Rencong dagger is used by the Acehnese as well as to the Sumatrans. Its shape is said to symbolize the Arab letter of the invocation “Bismillaah”. It is therefore believed to have a mystic power.

If you can send more pictures I might be able to determine what variant it is

[DaveF]

Originally Posted by ACP

IMHO sir, this is a rencong variant. The Rencong dagger is used by the Acehnese as well as to the Sumatrans. Its shape is said to symbolize the Arab letter of the invocation “Bismillaah”. It is therefore believed to have a mystic power.

If you can send more pictures I might be able to determine what variant it is

With apologies for the delay in my reply, here are some more photos. I hope you find them useful for ID purposes: