Help Identify Ottoman Shamshir Sword

explorer6970 · 5th February 2015, 01:01 AM

This sword has been in our family for two generations as part of an Ottoman antique collection. I would welcome information about this sword, specifically a translation of the writing on the blade, and general comments about its origin and date. The sword is 42" long and weighs about 1 KG. The wood-lined sheath is about 36" long and appears to be missing something that fastened at the top (see pics).

I just discovered this group so pardon my lack of knowledge. Cheers, Hank

Rick · 5th February 2015, 04:04 AM

Let's see now ....

The hilt is from Rhino horn .
The blade is crucible steel also known as wootz or johar .
The steel has been manipulated into a pattern known as 'Mohammed's Ladder' .
The scabbard looks complete from what I can see and has most likely silver fittings along with the guard .
An extremely nice and rare example of the form; quite valuable, but we don't discuss price publicly here .

Simply beautiful !

Thanks for sharing .

estcrh · 5th February 2015, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by explorer6970

The sword is 42" long and weighs about 1 KG. The wood-lined sheath is about 36" long and appears to be missing something that fastened at the top (see pics).

I just discovered this group so pardon my lack of knowledge. Cheers, Hank

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Let's see now ....

The hilt is from Rhino horn .
The blade is crucible steel also known as wootz or johar .
The steel has been manipulated into a pattern known as 'Mohammed's Ladder' .
The scabbard looks complete from what I can see and has most likely silver fittings along with the guard .
An extremely nice and rare example of the form; quite valuable, but we don't discuss price publicly here .

Simply beautiful !

Thanks for sharing .

Very nice, what do you think is missing?

RSWORD · 5th February 2015, 12:48 PM

There would typically be a metal flap that would cover the scabbard opening at the top of the throat. It usually was thin and flimsy and on most scabbards thus feature is lost. He probably is noticing the remaining hinge but without "dust cover".

estcrh · 5th February 2015, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

There would typically be a metal flap that would cover the scabbard opening at the top of the throat. It usually was thin and flimsy and on most scabbards thus feature is lost. He probably is noticing the remaining hinge but without "dust cover".

Interesting, I can not remember if I have seen this feature before, do you (or anyone else) have an image of an intact scabbard dust cover?

explorer6970 · 5th February 2015, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Interesting, I can not remember if I have seen this feature before, do you (or anyone else) have an image of an intact scabbard dust cover?

Attached is a picture I found on the internet depicting an intact scabbard. Mine is missing.

Hope someone can translate the writing and provide an estimate of age.

AJ1356 · 6th February 2015, 09:48 PM

This is a very nice example of a rehilted Persian Safawid shamshir. The Scabard would and hilt are ofcourse Ottomon, since these 2 dynasties unfortunately fought against each other a few times it is nothing unusual to see on side or another repurposing war bootie.
Anyways as requested there is the translation for the item.
بنده شاه ولایت عباس Banda e Shah e welaayat, 'Abaas. This means Slave of Shah e Welaayat 'Abaas (King 'Abaas Safawi) Shah e Welaayat is a Farsi name for Hazrat e Ali (RA) The Fourth Khalifa or the First Imam. Since the Safawids were fervent Shia's, this translation makes more sense. Note: This translation of this type of seal hereby nulifies any other translation of this seal

عمل اسد الله 'amal e Assadullah. Work of Assadullah, meaning he was the sword smith who made it or the sword smith whose shop this might have come out of.

The whole "ladder of Mohammad" does not make any sense since there is no such a thing as a "ladder of Mohammad" in the Islamic history, this is just some miss nomer. However ladder pattern or nardban (ladder in farsi) is an acceptable name for the ladder pattern.
I;m busy with school and thus am not posting as often, please feel free to messege me in the future if any questions

explorer6970 · 13th February 2015, 11:29 PM

Thanks to all who replied to this thread. Now I have to do some research on Asadollâh, and what the original hilt looked like. Evidently because these blades are high-quality they were re-purposed into new weapons.

5th February 2015, 01:01 AM	#1
explorer6970 Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: S. Florida USA Posts: 3	Help Identify Ottoman Shamshir Sword This sword has been in our family for two generations as part of an Ottoman antique collection. I would welcome information about this sword, specifically a translation of the writing on the blade, and general comments about its origin and date. The sword is 42" long and weighs about 1 KG. The wood-lined sheath is about 36" long and appears to be missing something that fastened at the top (see pics). I just discovered this group so pardon my lack of knowledge. Cheers, Hank Attached Images

5th February 2015, 04:04 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Let's see now .... The hilt is from Rhino horn . The blade is crucible steel also known as wootz or johar . The steel has been manipulated into a pattern known as 'Mohammed's Ladder' . The scabbard looks complete from what I can see and has most likely silver fittings along with the guard . An extremely nice and rare example of the form; quite valuable, but we don't discuss price publicly here . Simply beautiful ! Thanks for sharing .

5th February 2015, 12:48 PM	#4
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	There would typically be a metal flap that would cover the scabbard opening at the top of the throat. It usually was thin and flimsy and on most scabbards thus feature is lost. He probably is noticing the remaining hinge but without "dust cover".

6th February 2015, 09:48 PM	#7
AJ1356 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville Posts: 314	This is a very nice example of a rehilted Persian Safawid shamshir. The Scabard would and hilt are ofcourse Ottomon, since these 2 dynasties unfortunately fought against each other a few times it is nothing unusual to see on side or another repurposing war bootie. Anyways as requested there is the translation for the item. بنده شاه ولایت عباس Banda e Shah e welaayat, 'Abaas. This means Slave of Shah e Welaayat 'Abaas (King 'Abaas Safawi) Shah e Welaayat is a Farsi name for Hazrat e Ali (RA) The Fourth Khalifa or the First Imam. Since the Safawids were fervent Shia's, this translation makes more sense. Note: This translation of this type of seal hereby nulifies any other translation of this seal عمل اسد الله 'amal e Assadullah. Work of Assadullah, meaning he was the sword smith who made it or the sword smith whose shop this might have come out of. The whole "ladder of Mohammad" does not make any sense since there is no such a thing as a "ladder of Mohammad" in the Islamic history, this is just some miss nomer. However ladder pattern or nardban (ladder in farsi) is an acceptable name for the ladder pattern. I;m busy with school and thus am not posting as often, please feel free to messege me in the future if any questions

13th February 2015, 11:29 PM	#8
explorer6970 Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: S. Florida USA Posts: 3	Thanks to all who replied to this thread. Now I have to do some research on Asadollâh, and what the original hilt looked like. Evidently because these blades are high-quality they were re-purposed into new weapons.