Ambon Keris for interest

[Larks]

I figure if anyone anywhere outside of Indonesia and Timor may be interested in seeing this Keris it will be on here.


I confess first up that I know next to nothing about the Keris but I purchased this example from a private residence in Ambon about 25 years ago when I sailed through there. This Keris, despite its condition, is quite special to me and it was pretty much responsible for kicking off my interest in collecting swords as I sailed around the world.

For me at the time it was not so much of a tourist memento as a unique and quite powerful symbol of the culture and history of the area. So after buying it I found myself searching out and finding swords as I sailed up through Asia, the Red Sea and into the Mediterranean and each sword that I collected carries a rather fabulous and interesting personal story as to how I found it and purchased it.

I was not as interested in the quality or value of the swords as I was in their uniqueness, the places I found them, the circumstances that lead me to find them, the characters that sold them, their local identity and the stories that I felt they could tell.

So for what it’s worth here she is, my Ambon Keris. The only two things that I think I know are from an Indonesian friend in Jakarta who I showed it to when I sailed through there: he told me the hilt (hulu?) is ivory, not bone as I’d first thought, and that the handle was collectible and quite valuable in Jakarta on its own, with many of the blades of Keris of the age having long rusted away and Indonesian collectors placing a higher importance on historic handles as collectables than westerners might.

I’d be interested if anyone here has an opinion on those comments and if anyone might be able to shed any more light on this Keris - any thoughts on age for example?:

Greg

[A. G. Maisey]

That has the makings of a real nice keris.

I do understand that you may treasure it for its associations with your voyage and the personal involvements, but you really should pay the respect due to this keris and carry out some restoration of it.

As it is right now, this is not a happy keris.

[David]

Originally Posted by Larks

....the hilt (hulu?) is ivory, not bone as I’d first thought, and that the handle was collectible and quite valuable in Jakarta on its own, with many of the blades of Keris of the age having long rusted away and Indonesian collectors placing a higher importance on historic handles as collectables than westerners might.

Welcome to the forum Greg. Well, i'd say your Javanese friend is mostly correct. This is indeed an ivory hilt, and given the present condition of your blade i would imagine that if one were to value parts of your keris that indeed the hilt has the most monetary resale value of any other part of this piece. But i would disagree that "Indonesian collectors place a higher importance on historic handles" unless, of course, they happen to specifically be just hilt collectors (there are people who only collect hilts). But anyone who collects keris in Indonesia knows the the sum of any good ensemble is always greater than its parts, but that the most important part of a keris, certainly from a historic perspective, is always going to be the blade. Keris dress comes and goes, but the blade is the heart and soul of the ensemble. While one does indeed encounter mistreated blades, traditionally the blades are ritually cleaned and maintained. That doesn't mean that some don't fall by the wayside as this keris has, but for the most part keris blades are not rusting away in their scabbard.
Unfortunately the dress (hilt and sheath) has also seen better days and i concur with Alan that this keris deserves some restoration. The buntet is missing from the tip of the sheath stem and the hilt and hilt cup could use some cleaning. The buntet would probably ivory it complement the hilt so replacing that creates some problem. But other materials such as bone or horn could serve. I can't tell through that tarnish, but that hilt cup might be silver and if so it should shine. The wood could be at least cleaned and oiled, but possibly refinished.
The blade should be soaked in vinegar or citrus and brushed at intervals to remove rust and corrosion. Then the blade should be oiled with fragrant oils.
As Alan suggests, you might have a nice keris hiding in there.
BTW, this is a Bugis style keris. I'm sure someone will come along to nail down this particular hilt form, but this could be a Sumatran keris. What are the dimensions?

[Larks]

Thank you for the responses Alan and David and thank you for the PM’s and the offer of assistance with it Alan.

I confess that I’d been looking at the preservation of this in a purely Western manner and had not given consideration to the spirit of the blade in neglecting it.

I am working away from home, (working in Canberra, home is South East Queensland), so I don’t have the dimensions to hand but will get them this weekend when I head home for the long weekend and will post them here.

I am thinking now that I will also bring it back to Canberra with me next week and will follow your advice on bringing it back to life in so far as I can. Alan I will email you when I have it back here.

In regards the vinegar soaking for rust removal, if it’s of interest to anyone as an alternative: I’ve restored a number of artefacts in the past, including firearms, and have had great success with soaking in molasses and water for removing rust, even heavily rusted items.

I’d thought to do similar with the blade but was loath to do so with the hilt still attached, however I gather from your posts that removing the hilt and cup isn’t a difficult or damaging process?? Is there a method for doing it properly and sympathetically?

Oh and I do believe that my friend was talking of hilt collecting as a specific and somewhat interest in Jakarta, but I took that to be referring to particularly old hilts which had indeed survived their blades. However this is back in the early 90’s so my memory of the conversation may have dimmed over that time.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

BTW, this is a Bugis style keris. I'm sure someone will come along to nail down this particular hilt form, but this could be a Sumatran keris. What are the dimensions?

This style of hilt is called rekko in Sulawesi and is also found in East Sumatra, see a similar specimen.
I am curious to see the blade condition after cleaning as it is severely worn-out and rusty.
Regards

[Sajen]

Hello Greg,

agree with everything what Alan, David and Jean have written so far. Two things are not mentioned until now, the first is that Ambon don't have an own keris culture, so Ambon keris isn't a correct description but it isn't unusual to find keris in other parts of Indonesia, I've found for example a keris blade on Halmahera!
Secondly, yes the hilt is from ivory but to my eyes it don't look like elephant ivory but it look like sperm whale ivory.
To remove the hilt heat the blade with a candle or carefully with a hot air gun and try carefully to move the hilt left and right, like said, very carefully that the hilt or pesi (tang) don't break.

Regards,
Detlef

[Larks]

Originally Posted by Jean

This style of hilt is called rekko in Sulawesi and is also found in East Sumatra, see a similar specimen.
I am curious to see the blade condition after cleaning as it is severely worn-out and rusty.
Regards

Hi Jean, here it is “mostly” cleaned, with still a few stubborn spots of rust that I’m trying to remove gently, rather than chipping them off or doing anything drastic that may damage the blade further.

I may be crucified here for the way I have gone about this but I was not able to remove the handle by heating the blade without putting more and more effort into it such that I feared doing irreversible damage. So I have ended up suspending it in vinegar and working it gently over 24 hours with a brass wire brush to clean it up. As a result I’m not all that happy with what it’s done to the colour of the selut but I’ll see how/if that may change when I polish it later.

I’ll give it overnight tonight and see how it is but I don’t want to overcook it and loose more metal from the blade by doing so.

So my query now is what to do with the rust removed? Should I gently polish the blade to try and remove the roughness caused by the rust and the acid action of the vinegar/rust removal. And should I perhaps smooth out the blade edge with a steel or fine file to remove the rough serrations caused by the rust and subsequent cleaning?

Or should I just now preserve it now with oil as described in other posts and leave it as it is? Would anyone disagree with using Renaissance wax on a Keris (as I use on my other swords) instead of the aromatic oils that I’ve read about?

[IMG]IMG_1848 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_1847 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_1846 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]IMG_1849 by Greg Larkin, on Flickr[/IMG]

[Battara]

That’s the problem with even a light acid like vinegar, it will still eat into the metal. I agree with a good polishing.

[kai]

Hello Greg,

here it is “mostly” cleaned, with still a few stubborn spots of rust that I’m trying to remove gently, rather than chipping them off or doing anything drastic that may damage the blade further.

It usually helps to work on those stubborn spots with a fine needle and steady hand; if you want to play safe, you can also utilize picks that are softer than the mild steel of the blade (picks from hardwood, etc.).

I may be crucified here for the way I have gone about this but I was not able to remove the handle by heating the blade without putting more and more effort into it such that I feared doing irreversible damage. So I have ended up suspending it in vinegar and working it gently over 24 hours with a brass wire brush to clean it up. As a result I’m not all that happy with what it’s done to the colour of the selut but I’ll see how/if that may change when I polish it later.

I'd be more weary of the ivory which does not respond well to acids...

It really takes perseverance to dismount some keris hilts: Just heat long enough near the flared base (up to several minutes - stop if you see bubbles from possibly boiling resin or smoke exiting from the pesi hole; with a candle flame you can't hurt the blade; make sure to protect the hilt from heat though!) and let it cool again if the hilt doesn't move upon very gentle twisting/pulling - some old keris need weeks of multiple cycles before they let go!

I’ll give it overnight tonight and see how it is but I don’t want to overcook it and loose more metal from the blade by doing so.

Removal of those stubborn spots helps to minimize total exposure of the metal blade.

So my query now is what to do with the rust removed? Should I gently polish the blade to try and remove the roughness caused by the rust and the acid action of the vinegar/rust removal. And should I perhaps smooth out the blade edge with a steel or fine file to remove the rough serrations caused by the rust and subsequent cleaning?

I'd suggest not to do any reprofiling nor even mild polishing. Some cultures prefer different approaches but any of this work needs quite specialized knowledge on traditional styles, etc.

Or should I just now preserve it now with oil as described in other posts and leave it as it is? Would anyone disagree with using Renaissance wax on a Keris (as I use on my other swords) instead of the aromatic oils that I’ve read about?

This blade will be somewhat porous and needs thorough and quick drying to avoid rust appearing again quickly. Ample application of any gun oil will help; some may prefer to use a water displacing oil first. After soaking for a few days, excess oil can be removed (or the blade just wrapped in plastic foil for longterm storage); aromatic oils can be added at this stage, too; adding a thin layer of microcrystalline wax might be helpful for display purposes - application can be quite difficult though since excess wax tends to fill crevices/pores and attract dust in the long run. I would not recommend Ren Wax since it also contains polyethylene waxes which can prove difficult to remove.

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Jose,

That’s the problem with even a light acid like vinegar, it will still eat into the metal. I agree with a good polishing.

Polishing a porous blade like this is a tough task and often results in very unevenly polished surfaces (or removal of quite a lot of "healthy" metal).

Moreover, this keris originates very likely from SW Sulawesi and the local collecting community favors only etching the blade with mild acids without any polishing. One might argue from museum specimens that this practise may not be any ancient custom. However, any serious restoration work on this blade will be an uphill battle.

This is a rather small and probably fairly old blade - I'd suggest to leave it alone (after completely removing the rust).

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Should I gently polish the blade to try and remove the roughness caused by the rust and the acid action of the vinegar/rust removal. And should I perhaps smooth out the blade edge with a steel or fine file to remove the rough serrations caused by the rust and subsequent cleaning?

P.S.: Keris are push daggers - there is no need for neat edges. While it may feel a bit weird, I'd keep the ragged edges.

[kai]

Hello Greg,

it would be preferable if you were to attach the pics to this site (any web hosting is bound to expire sooner or later and results in crippled threads).

Could you also add pics of the top and underside of the hilt, please?

Secondly, yes the hilt is from ivory but to my eyes it don't look like elephant ivory but it look like sperm whale ivory.

Hello Detlef, it may even be hippo...

Ambon don't have an own keris culture, so Ambon keris isn't a correct description but it isn't unusual to find keris in other parts of Indonesia, I've found for example a keris blade on Halmahera!

This is a keris Bugis and the Bugis established trade posts on the major spice islands. While Ambonese culture may not have fully embraced keris culture, it is very likely that the ruling elites also received keris as gifts. The Makassarese were very active on Sumbawa - were the local Moluccan rulers strong enough to ward off foreign influence more successfully? Ternate certainly was an important base of power.

Regards,
Kai

[Larks]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Greg,


It usually helps to work on those stubborn spots with a fine needle and steady hand; if you want to play safe, you can also utilize picks that are softer than the mild steel of the blade (picks from hardwood, etc.).



I'd be more weary of the ivory which does not respond well to acids...

It really takes perseverance to dismount some keris hilts: Just heat long enough near the flared base (up to several minutes - stop if you see bubbles from possibly boiling resin or smoke exiting from the pesi hole; with a candle flame you can't hurt the blade; make sure to protect the hilt from heat though!) and let it cool again if the hilt doesn't move upon very gentle twisting/pulling - some old keris need weeks of multiple cycles before they let go!



Removal of those stubborn spots helps to minimize total exposure of the metal blade.



I'd suggest not to do any reprofiling nor even mild polishing. Some cultures prefer different approaches but any of this work needs quite specialized knowledge on traditional styles, etc.



This blade will be somewhat porous and needs thorough and quick drying to avoid rust appearing again quickly. Ample application of any gun oil will help; some may prefer to use a water displacing oil first. After soaking for a few days, excess oil can be removed (or the blade just wrapped in plastic foil for longterm storage); aromatic oils can be added at this stage, too; adding a thin layer of microcrystalline wax might be helpful for display purposes - application can be quite difficult though since excess wax tends to fill crevices/pores and attract dust in the long run. I would not recommend Ren Wax since it also contains polyethylene waxes which can prove difficult to remove.

Regards,
Kai

Thank you Kai, I really appreciate your generous and well regarded advice.

I ended up carefully chipping some of the more stubborn spots of rust with a very fine screw driver last night and was able to avoid the blade and so avoid any gouging or scratching that might have marred the blade.

And I did leave it in the vinegar overnight and this morning it looked pretty good, so I washed it thoroughly in fresh water, dried it and have left it soaking under a good dose of WD40 while I’m at work today (WD40 being all that I have at hand at the moment - I’m working away from home and so don’t have anything else much here at the moment - everything is a bit of an improvise).

I did set the blade up so as to keep the ivory hilt clear of the vinegar while soaking it as I was very mindful of damaging or discolouring that and it seems quite OK.

I will take some better photos this evening and will include a better profile of the hilt.

Thank you all again for your advice and comments
Greg

[kai]

You're welcome, Greg!

And I did leave it in the vinegar overnight and this morning it looked pretty good, so I washed it thoroughly in fresh water, dried it and have left it soaking under a good dose of WD40 while I’m at work today

Yup, that's fine for initially displacing the water; keep it soaked (wrapped in plastic) and get a good oil for longterm storage.

I did set the blade up so as to keep the ivory hilt clear of the vinegar while soaking it as I was very mindful of damaging or discolouring that and it seems quite OK.

Since vinegar evaporates, this is not a safe approach. It may be weak enough to not posit an immediate threat to already patinated surfaces though.

Rust developing on a tang will crack the base of the hilt sooner or later. Thus, I'd suggest to remove the hilt for cleaning purposes, anyway. If set with resin, it usually comes off reasonably well if heated long enough; if tight from rust, it may need many more heating cycles. Reattaching the hilt is usually done with a gentle pressure fit nowadays which allows the materials some inevitable movement due to temperature and humidty changes (the more these environmental variables can be stabilized, the better for longterm storage).

I will take some better photos this evening and will include a better profile of the hilt.

Thanks - pretty much all sides not yet shown (including the face) may exhibit some details that allow identification.

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Detlef, it may even be hippo...

Hello Kai,

really don't think so! I miss the typical dot's in a line and the colour and patination is wrong for hippo ivory. And the marked white blotch seems to be typical for sperm whale!

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

This is a keris Bugis and the Bugis established trade posts on the major spice islands. While Ambonese culture may not have fully embraced keris culture, it is very likely that the ruling elites also received keris as gifts. The Makassarese were very active on Sumbawa - were the local Moluccan rulers strong enough to ward off foreign influence more successfully? Ternate certainly was an important base of power.

Hello Kai,

I am familiar with the Moluccas history, my wife coming from Halmahera. While Ternate is traditional Muslim Ambon is mainly Christian. For sure there was trade by Bugis and like this the keris in question will has found it's way to Ambon but a keris gift for a Sultan would look different IMVHO. And I just stated that the Moluccas never have had a own keris culture and I think that this is a fact. So a description "Ambon" keris is a little bit misleading. Just my opinion!

Regards,
Detlef

[Larks]

A few more photos - it has cleaned up quite nicely and with interesting rose tint to the blade and I’m wondering if anyone can educate me on the chemistry of the steel composition used for keris forging. I am very interested in blacksmithing but am ignorant of what the makeup of these blades might be and what would influence the colour - i.e. might it have a bit of copper in the mix or would a high phosphorous content possibly contribute to the tint?

(Please excuse me while I fight with a slow connection and correct my photo loading )

[David]

Sorry to be so long away from this discussion. I mostly agree with what Kai has posted, though i am more with Detlef on the material of the hilt. Seem more likely Sperm whale than hippo.
On the topic of ivory, Kai touched on this, but i can't state more strongly that in trying to remove the hilt, which i agree is worth attempting, it is the ivory hilt that is more likely to break before the tang will, so do work slowly and carefully. No matter how nice it would be to remove this hilt it is not worth cracking or breaking it.
And when i first looked at your photos it was on my cellphone. After seeing the images larger i would agree with Kai that Sulawesi is a more likely origin.
Speaking of images you last ones did not seem to post. Please try again.

[Larks]

And some different views of the grip

[Rick]

Those dotted lines on the handle; Hippo tooth?

[Larks]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Kai,

I am familiar with the Moluccas history, my wife coming from Halmahera. While Ternate is traditional Muslim Ambon is mainly Christian. For sure there was trade by Bugis and like this the keris in question will has found it's way to Ambon but a keris gift for a Sultan would look different IMVHO. And I just stated that the Moluccas never have had a own keris culture and I think that this is a fact. So a description "Ambon" keris is a little bit misleading. Just my opinion!

Regards,
Detlef

Hi Detlaf,

if I knew how to do it I would edit the title to read AMBON “SOURCED” KERIS FOR INTEREST. When I posted this thread I knew next to nothing about this Keris other than where I found it and nothing about Keris in general and as I mentioned in my initial post I had acquired it from a local private household so I simply had no reason to think it was anything but local to the area.

However the wonderful responses and the interest in this Keris have opened my eyes to a whole new world of information and interest and I am quite amazed at the level and depth of knowledge and just how much there is to learn about these amazing artefacts. I continue to read with great interest and am lapping up any information that I can absorb.

cheers
Greg

[kai]

Originally Posted by Rick

Those dotted lines on the handle; Hippo tooth?

Yup!

And I beat Mr. Hippo Ivory to it...

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Hi Greg,

I am short by time right now since I need to work now. But I have to correct my further post and have to agree now with Kai after I've seen your new pictures. There are clearly visible a line of black dots in a line so the handle material is indeed from hippo ivory.
Don't worry about your title, I only want to state that Ambon don't has had an own keris culture.

Best regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

Yup!

And I beat Mr. Hippo Ivory to it...

Regards,
Kai

[Larks]

Originally Posted by kai

Yup!

And I beat Mr. Hippo Ivory to it...

Regards,
Kai

So is this a good thing? In so far as is Hippo Ivory any more or less desirable in a Keris hilt (or any collectable item for that matter) than elephant tusk or whale tooth ivory? And how would it have found its way to the region?

[kai]

Hello Greg,

So is this a good thing? In so far as is Hippo Ivory any more or less desirable in a Keris hilt (or any collectable item for that matter) than elephant tusk or whale tooth ivory? And how would it have found its way to the region?

Not really much of any difference, IMHO - quality of carving and condition being much more important nowadays.

In the Malay world, hippo has a reputation for staying white longer than the other ivories. It also is a tiny bit harder material, on average.

It's certainly the Arab merchants whose network connected Africa with Asia. We also see walrus and extinct mammoth ivory being utilized throughout Asia - maritime (as well as overland) trade has been the main player in connecting cultures for millennia...

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Larks

So is this a good thing?

Hello Greg,

The good thing by this is that when you want to sell it one day that there are no CITES prohibition on it by international trade!

Regards,
Detlef

[David]

Originally Posted by kai

Yup!

And I beat Mr. Hippo Ivory to it...

Regards,
Kai

Yep! New photos reveal new information. Good original call on that one Kai. Though i suspect you were just plan lucky this time. LOL!

[kai]

Good original call on that one Kai. Though i suspect you were just plan lucky this time. LOL!

Have a close look at the close-up in post #1...

I wasn't positive though.

Regards,.
Kai

[David]

Originally Posted by Sajen

The good thing by this is that when you want to sell it one day that there are no CITES prohibition on it by international trade!

This could change soon.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8431751.html

https://conservationaction.co.za/rec...kets-tanzania/