yataghan translation please

[eftihis]

Hi, this yataghan belongs to a friend and these are the photos he sent to me! Thanks in advance for your translation help

[Dom]

Hi Eftihis
tomorrow, I shall see with my translator, if (?) it's Arabic or Turkish
any way, allready I saw a date 1215 either ± 1800

lucky guy your friend, coze his yatagan it's just, beautiful, ivory, coral, very nice scabbard

all the best my friend

à +

Dom

[Battara]

IS that twistcore I see in the blade?

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Dom

Hi Eftihis
tomorrow, I shall see with my translator, if (?) it's Arabic or Turkish

the verdict is dropped,
the penalty is; it's not in Arabic

please ... "Zifir" ... HELP

à +

Dom

[Zifir]

Dom, I hear and obey , of course, it is also my pleasure to be any help to Efhitis.

It is one of the most common inscriptions on yatağans: the names of the "Seven Sleepers" Yemliha, Mekselina, Mislina, Mernuş, Debernuş, Şazenuş, Kefeştatayuş ve Kıtmir.

Efhitis, for the tuğra where the owners name is written, could you provide a closer look with a new picture?

The last inscription is Ali bin Muhammed, probably the name of the maker.

Also I have a naive question, probably everyone knows the answer, except me. When I am reading these inscriptions ,whenever I see the word amel-i (work of/made by) followed by a name, I always assumed that that's the person who made that yatağan. While going through the yatağan catalog of Istanbul Military Museum, I came across examples with inscriptions and readable stamps on them. For example on the stamp, it clearly says amel-i Abdullah but on the inscription it says amel-i Mustafa. Logical explanation is that blade was made by Abdullah and inscription and ornamentation were made by Mustafa. But how about the ones only with inscriptions? Should we assume that blade was made someone anonymous and the inscription was written by the person whose name is on the yatağan? I know this is not a crucial issue since in the absence of surnames, we cannot apparently determine major yatağan craftsmen and their work. Anyway, just the mumblings of a yatağan enthusiast

Best,
Zifir

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Zifir

Also I have a naive question, probably everyone knows the answer, except me.

YES ... FOR SURE ... I'll to beleive you

Originally Posted by Zifir

I know this is not a crucial issue since in the absence of surnames, we cannot apparently determine major yatağan craftsmen and their work. Anyway, just the mumblings of a yatağan enthusiast

Zifir, you are a lovely guy, it's every time a real pleasure,
to know, that you are never too far

don't underestimated your ability, and knowledge ...
the main problem is coming from the absence of "family name, or surname"
in the Arabic world, and sometimes also may be, in Islamic countries (who aren't obligatory Arab)
... you are aware


same thing, with the sign of swordsmith, blacksmith,
you have to have at least, the name for their father, to be able to establish a lignee, otherwise, it's hopeless
excepted some very rare case, no surname, sometimes a nickname

with my warmest regards

à +

Dom

[Zifir]

Thank you, Dom. I don't quite remember where I read it, but this sums things up pretty nicely: "bureaucracy is an art on making the possible impossible"

[eftihis]

Dom and Zifir, thank you very much for your help!
Battara, i havent handled the yataghan but its obvious from the photos that is "turkish ribbon" damascus steel.
Very interesting subject about the stamps of the yataghan makers. There must have been some sucessfull workshops with big production, because we often find blades with great similarity on shape, characteristics and ornamentation. Probably these blades were sold in many places, roughly finished and then the local workman was making ornamentation and the handle and also the decoration.
But for sure every stamp is different, because they are handmeda. Therefore the absence of surname is not a problem, if you observe closely 2 different for eg "hussein" If he is not the same Hussein, the stamp will be different, because it was made by a different person. DIfferent size, caligraphy, dept, etc...

By the way, great comment about the power of bureaucracy.... I hope the problems with surnames and passports end soon!

[eftihis]

Dear Zifir,
here are the close ups!
have a look and in the thread about "islamic amulet" please!

[Zifir]

Hi efhitis,

Sahib Hazar Ağa (owner Hazar Agha).

I also saw the thread on the amulet you mentioned some time ago, but it is arabic. But I will give it a shot however incomplete.

[eftihis]

Thank you very much Zifir!