Barrel for comment

Raf · 25th June 2015, 10:16 AM

This sad relic turned up the other day.From an early cannon barrelled turn off flintlock. Clear London proof marks. Decoration on English firearms is unusual and in this case consists of a sort of false damascening of punched and chiseled work with mercury gilding which must have once looked wonderful against a blued steel background. Suggesting a date of around 1670 ?

corrado26 · 25th June 2015, 04:15 PM

After Blackmore, British Military Firearms these proof- and view marks of the London Gunmaker's Company are from about 1740. I think this is a turn off barrel of a Queen Anne pistol.
corrado26

Raf · 25th June 2015, 07:59 PM

Guess you take your choice. Personally I would rather go on style.

fernando · 27th June 2015, 09:48 AM

Doesn't it look like the more simple crowns in both marks correspond to the later 1702 version shown in your post #3 ?

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By the way Raf, does the barrel still turn off ?

Raf · 27th June 2015, 12:15 PM

I agree but if you look at the relationship between the GP and the crown on the 1702 version the crown is considerably larger than the GP and on my version it is the other way round . I never know how literally we should take these things as published marks are presumably taken from dated examples and proof stamps must have had to be constantly re - made . I cant imagine engravers going to great lengths to ensure stylistic consistency. My argument for a seventeenth century date is simply the thing has a restoration feel about it . By the end of the century English gunmakers had evolved a more austere and confident approach based on elegant lines and sound craftsmanship . Having said that there were plenty of continental gunsmiths working in London at the turn of the century so maybe that accounts for the decoration.

Yes the barrel does turn off

The Worshipfull Company of Gunmakers was incorporated in 1637 and consisted of 125 gunmakers responsible for proving and marking all types of guns both English and continental and for enforcing regulation. Proof firing was carried out by individual gunmakers on their own premises although a collective proof house was established in Whitehall in 1715 . Therefore prior to this each gunmaker must have had their own version of the crown / GP stamp .

On the subject of proof marks / makers marks in general here is a selection that might be useful for reference .

25th June 2015, 10:16 AM	#1
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	Barrel for comment This sad relic turned up the other day.From an early cannon barrelled turn off flintlock. Clear London proof marks. Decoration on English firearms is unusual and in this case consists of a sort of false damascening of punched and chiseled work with mercury gilding which must have once looked wonderful against a blued steel background. Suggesting a date of around 1670 ? Attached Images

25th June 2015, 04:15 PM	#2
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	ueen-Anne-pistol After Blackmore, British Military Firearms these proof- and view marks of the London Gunmaker's Company are from about 1740. I think this is a turn off barrel of a Queen Anne pistol. corrado26

27th June 2015, 12:15 PM	#5
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	I agree but if you look at the relationship between the GP and the crown on the 1702 version the crown is considerably larger than the GP and on my version it is the other way round . I never know how literally we should take these things as published marks are presumably taken from dated examples and proof stamps must have had to be constantly re - made . I cant imagine engravers going to great lengths to ensure stylistic consistency. My argument for a seventeenth century date is simply the thing has a restoration feel about it . By the end of the century English gunmakers had evolved a more austere and confident approach based on elegant lines and sound craftsmanship . Having said that there were plenty of continental gunsmiths working in London at the turn of the century so maybe that accounts for the decoration. Yes the barrel does turn off The Worshipfull Company of Gunmakers was incorporated in 1637 and consisted of 125 gunmakers responsible for proving and marking all types of guns both English and continental and for enforcing regulation. Proof firing was carried out by individual gunmakers on their own premises although a collective proof house was established in Whitehall in 1715 . Therefore prior to this each gunmaker must have had their own version of the crown / GP stamp . On the subject of proof marks / makers marks in general here is a selection that might be useful for reference . Attached Images Last edited by Raf; 28th June 2015 at 10:50 AM.

25th June 2015, 07:59 PM	#3
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	Guess you take your choice. Personally I would rather go on style. Attached Images

27th June 2015, 09:48 AM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Doesn't it look like the more simple crowns in both marks correspond to the later 1702 version shown in your post #3 ? . By the way Raf, does the barrel still turn off ?