1533: A Wonderful and Rich Source of All Sorts of Early-16th C. Arms and Armor!

[Matchlock]

Hi all,

Here is a painting by Melchior Feselen, Bavaria: The Battle of Alesia, dated 1533 (Bavarian National Museum Munich).

Depicted in utmost detail, against a breathtaking landscape and sky, are almost all sorts of early-16th c. arms, armor and accouterments: tents, cannon, edged weapons like two-handed swords and Katzbalgers, Landsknechts in their full and rich costume and equipment amidst fierce fighting, hafted weapons such as pikes and halberds, early matchlock and hand-ignited fireams (arquebuses) and various forms of flasks, powder horns and earliest bandoliers, horsemen in full armor, etc.

Enjoy!

I have a 7 MB high-rez scan of that painting that can be zoomified to study each tiny detail!
Anbody wishing to receive that scan, send me a private message together with your email but make sure that your email system can handle a 7 MB attachment!

Plesase also see:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15724


Best,
Michael

[kronckew]

i don't recall what calibre firelocks gaius julius caesar used at alesia in 52 b.c. his artillery looks a bit outdated for the period. the hooped cannon was obsolete by 60 b.c., surely. i like the roman tents inside the circumvallation. the double eagle byzantine flags were a nice touch. made me feel like i'd been there. should have added a few aquila for caesar's 12 legions...

nice depiction of the weapons of the period it was painted tho.

a slightly more accurate photo taken of vercengetorix's surrender, found on an ancient but serviceable sd card found at alisia.

[Matchlock]

Hi Kronckew,

I too think it's a pity that cannon, halberds and cameras were common in Caesar's period but the photo you posted seems to be the only one hitherto recorded!

Best,
Michael

[kronckew]

yes, the ancient 'photographers' can often make mistakes based on their own current knowledge and lack of knowledge of history and we must be vigilant in not making any assumptions based on graphic images of the past which may have been distorted by time and dramatic license of the creator of the image.

i am currently reading an arthurian novel set around the end of the 4th century a.d. as the romans are starting to abandon britain. somehow a primus pilus who is also a bladesmith, and has a collection of arms from around the empire, has never heard of a spatha for cavalry use and of ring maile armour, and saddles. he's just 'discovered' a barbarian 'frankish' saddle with strange dangly bits for putting the feet in, which he has assumed are for assisting a cripple to mount horse, and i suspect he will eventually discover they can be useful for a heavily armoured cataphract to mount his horse as well as allowing better deployment of his weapons. the facts of course must not interfere with the story. he's about to make a longer sword than a gladius for the first time, out of the unknown metal 'steel' he found in a sky-stone. i will make an educated guess he will call it excalibur. his use of an african compound bow, as well as welsh archers with 200lb. pull yew longbows i can almost accept tho.

p.s. - the ancient sd card from 53 b.c. survived only because it was packed in silicone grease, surrounded by dessicant, and sealed in a stainless steel container hidden in a roman catacomb where it remained dry and undiscovered until found by an early 20th c. explorer. i guess not many people used such a procedure.

[Matchlock]

I really feel honored for getting to know such a universally educated and gfited historian and technician as well, Kronckew!
Your profound knowledge and well-based proofs should really shake those obsolete theories and history books to their very foundations!

My compliments,
Michael

[kronckew]

i accept the laurels with the spirit intended.

i ride my chariot thru the triumphal arch with my slave at my ear, muttering continuously "remember, thou art but mortal".

he of course will be fed to the lampreys tonight.

[kronckew]

there were more photos recovered from that sd, which also show the ancient digital cameras in use by the romans during the dacian wars.



nothing new under the sun

p.s. - that was a large capacity sd, it at one time held all the photos from caesar thru theodosius. sadly some had deteriorated and did not survive.

[Matchlock]

Just superb!

Please forgive a bloody Bavarian dope (Old Bavarian: Depp )) for not knowing the abbreviation sd - could you please give the full explanation?

Thanks and best,
Michael

[kronckew]

my family were 'hamburgers' with a few prussians thrown in for stoicism and a couple of austro-hungarians for the pastries & goulash. plattdeutsch was occasionally heard mixed in with hoch deutsch and a smattering of english when granny forgot the german word...

a SD card is a 'secure digital' solid state memory device.



and is used in digital cameras to store photos.

the romans were the masters of digital 'photography' which we now call 'mosaics', hence my somewhat cheeky excursion into fantasies above:

[Matchlock]

Thanks so much for that explanation, Kronckew,

I didn't realize either that mosaics consited of bits and bytes instead of pieces of stones!

m

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Thanks so much for that explanation, Kronckew,

I didn't realize either that mosaics consited of bits and bytes instead of pieces of stones!

m

each bit (of stone) was placed digitally (by fingers). (i don't think the pun translates well into german. digit also = finger in english)


roman 'beware the dog' door entrance from pompeii


my own english non-digital version for comparison:

[Matchlock]

Oh no,

The pun translates perfectly into German where finger is Finger too, and digit derives from Latin digitus anyway!

And: I understand, no digital bits in the analog photograph of your canis! Brilliant ...

[kronckew]

my forum signature, where forums allow it is



the 'radix lecti' is a loose translation of radix (root vegetable), and lecti (couch), into 'couch potato', the breed nickname of most greyhounds (schnellhund). usually it's listed as '40MPH couch potatoes' for them. or 64kph couch potatoes in the continental EU.

[Matchlock]

Classic education is overflowing!

[kronckew]

i stop at a smattering of greek:

Ὦ ξεῖν', ἀγγέλλειν Λακεδαιμονίοις ὅτι τῇδε
κείμεθα, τοῖς κείνων ῥήμασι πειθόμενοι.

i use the latin translation of simonides' inscription on the grave of the 300 in my signature tho for consistency.

and to think the romans used to consider us germanic people as 'barbarians'. silivius berlusconius eat your heart out...

[Matchlock]

Right, that beats everything!

[Anders Kramer]

Hi All, sorry for writing here, but since I'm new to this forum, I am not allowed to send PMs, so I hope you wont mind too badly.


Matchlock:
I would really like that 7mb high-rez picture that you have. I hope we can find something out since it, as you say, is a really comprehensive view of the Landsknecht army.

My Email is Anderskv@gmail.com

regards
Anders

[Samik]

Excellent find Michael ! May I also humbly ask for the whole picture ? Imperial knights and Gallic horse (which looks particularly similar to period depictions of Eastern cavalrymen) are quite a treat as well !

Much obliged,
Samuel

[Egir]

2 Michael

I am too very interested in a large resolution (7MB) copy of Melchior Feselen's Battle of Alesia. Could I ask you to send me a copy on ngegir@yandex.ru, or, alternately, on ngegir@gmail.com.

I am currently researching depictions of renaissance and early modern engagements (or historical/fictional engagements by artists of the era) for my PhD, and found this source especially interesting. I had seen an overview in Hale's Artists and Warfare in the Renaissance (marked as "Siege of Alesia" there), but it's in B&W and, of course, very little of the detail can be seen.

Kind regards,

Nikolai A.G.

[fernando]

Hi Nikolai,
You should be aware of the following:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16416