Interesting video on the kampilan

ShazamsLaw · 21st November 2018, 11:27 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZYMnqfWDrY&t=18s

I'm sure many of you are familiar with the show "forged by fire" which encompasses the idea that they re-create historical weapons and test them based on how well they were forged by participants.

What's interesting, aside from the comments on whether kampilans were only used by Muslim filipinos, was motion and angles of chopping with the weapon. Very similar to how people would use bolos and even kris swords.
Video mentions "traditonally used by moros", but no mention of
Visayans

David · 22nd November 2018, 05:11 PM

Should we really expect historical accuracy from Forged by Fire?

Rick · 22nd November 2018, 06:11 PM

Probably not.
Did you see how thick that Kampilan on the show was?

A proper Kampilan is a pretty light sword; very fast with a very pronounced distal taper.
F.I.F.'s sword tests can border on the ridiculous; the Moro Kampilan has one purpose and that purpose is dispatching one's fellow man.

kronckew · 22nd November 2018, 07:32 PM

FIF requires them to make approximations of historical weapons 'in their own style', then subjects them to brutal tests that a real historic one would never have passed and would never have been subjected to.

They are usually crudely done, oversized and/or so heavy as to be jokes. One Historical weapons recreation 'expert' 'judge' is obsessed with 'indexing' and will comment negatively on weapons that had round grips historically, or if his large hands find the grip uncomfortable. they chop dry cow thigh bones and complain of flaws in the edge, then fail them for these flaws when they do not slice a cow in half first blow in a 'sharpness test' that did not allow the maker to resharpen the blade.

I've lost count of how many finalists have said 'I've never made a sword before' or 'Maybe I should have tested it before I came back'.

It's an occasionally interesting comedy, not a test of real skill. They must pay the judges a lot of money to spout some of the stuff that comes out of their mouths.

Rick · 22nd November 2018, 11:40 PM

The worst spinoff from that show is Knife or Death; it's just plain silly.

kronckew · 23rd November 2018, 12:13 AM

tonite's FIF offering here was the landknicht zweihander. They made two 8.5 pound dull crowbars. they managed to bruise the deer carcasses, one actually managed to cut their deer a bit. they praised the duller one for having broken the spine, even tho it didn't cut thru. The one using the 'I've never made a sword before' guy lost. Mr. Indexing expert said they were so heavy he could hardly raise the tip up. He broke thru a stand of canes and declared this one can cut., even tho he could run his finger down the edge unharmed. 10 grand doesn't buy much anymore...

Rick · 23rd November 2018, 01:04 AM

I've always wondered how many of those contestants stumble through here looking for information.

ShazamsLaw · 23rd November 2018, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Probably not.
Did you see how thick that Kampilan on the show was?

A proper Kampilan is a pretty light sword; very fast with a very pronounced distal taper.
F.I.F.'s sword tests can border on the ridiculous; the Moro Kampilan has one purpose and that purpose is dispatching one's fellow man.

maybe they were testing a visayan kampilan, not a moro one

Kmaddock · 23rd November 2018, 09:15 AM

Hi All
But FIF does show smithing skills and introduces a wide audience to swords and knives which can only be a good thing for our hobby.

I got interested in WWI through comic books as a v young boy and looking at a German infantry mans pickelhaube as he flew a robot bat, long story.
But I now know and understand a lot more, hopefully

An an introducer to edged weapons it is far far better than the very little else about weapons shows.

I sit down with my 10 year old and he is learning all the time and critiques the work.

I wish they spent more time on the 5 day challenge at the latter part of the show though.

Regards

Ken

kronckew · 23rd November 2018, 10:06 AM

over here they are also showing 'forged in steel' which has a modern smith recreating weapons a lot more accurately, and better looking, he shows all the steps too. Sometimes followed by Iron and fire, a 'primitive' smith in a log cabin that makes knives, tomahawks, tools, and fancy flint and percussion lock rifles from scratch, and shows all the steps (and occasionally blows things up with tannerite)

drac2k · 23rd November 2018, 02:21 PM

Despite all of the historical inaccuracies, I am a fan of both of the shows. Yes, some of the blades are crude and of poor quality, however, when one considers the limited time allowed to make them, it is really quite an amazing feat.
I also appreciate "the Knife or Death," show as it does demonstrate the abilities of various different blade forms; an actual antique barong was used and it did surprisingly well.
These shows with their introduction to historical weapons(no matter how flawed sometimes), have done more to interest young people in ethnographic blades than all of the blade forums combined, thus possibly preserving this field of study in the future with the " I Phone, "Generation.

Spunjer · 23rd November 2018, 03:06 PM

"I also appreciate "the Knife or Death," show as it does demonstrate the abilities of various different blade forms; an actual antique barong was used and it did surprisingly well."

the one using the antique Barung on the first season was none other than Mabagani

as a side, FIF approached me before and asked for pictures from my collection. they ended up using this one:

Lee · 23rd November 2018, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Should we really expect historical accuracy from Forged by Fire?

Not at all.

I watched FiF loyally for several seasons, though I privately called it the 'Bladesmiths' Sadomasochism Hour' to my closest acquaintances. I would regularly wonder from where they picked up the unfamiliar (to me) names for the various ethnographic items the contestants were to make - until I found an old Atlanta Cutlery catalog in a disused magazine rack. Finally, there was an episode where I so strongly disagreed with the judges' choice and treatment of the losers that I ceased watching.

The Discovery Channel has just launched its own version called Master of Arms and at least I do not have to endure the order to 'surrender your weapon" commanded to the losers - they are a bit more diplomatic. The expertise is more oriented towards firearms, but I am not sure that the recent episode where the challenge was to make a US Civil War style bayonet and then to construct a octagonal barreled Pennsylvania-Kentucky style rifle and removably attach said bayonet is a promising portend of what is to come.

21st November 2018, 11:27 PM	#1
ShazamsLaw Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: USA Posts: 26	Interesting video on the kampilan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZYMnqfWDrY&t=18s I'm sure many of you are familiar with the show "forged by fire" which encompasses the idea that they re-create historical weapons and test them based on how well they were forged by participants. What's interesting, aside from the comments on whether kampilans were only used by Muslim filipinos, was motion and angles of chopping with the weapon. Very similar to how people would use bolos and even kris swords. Video mentions "traditonally used by moros", but no mention of Visayans

22nd November 2018, 07:32 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	FIF requires them to make approximations of historical weapons 'in their own style', then subjects them to brutal tests that a real historic one would never have passed and would never have been subjected to. They are usually crudely done, oversized and/or so heavy as to be jokes. One Historical weapons recreation 'expert' 'judge' is obsessed with 'indexing' and will comment negatively on weapons that had round grips historically, or if his large hands find the grip uncomfortable. they chop dry cow thigh bones and complain of flaws in the edge, then fail them for these flaws when they do not slice a cow in half first blow in a 'sharpness test' that did not allow the maker to resharpen the blade. I've lost count of how many finalists have said 'I've never made a sword before' or 'Maybe I should have tested it before I came back'. It's an occasionally interesting comedy, not a test of real skill. They must pay the judges a lot of money to spout some of the stuff that comes out of their mouths. Last edited by kronckew; 22nd November 2018 at 07:55 PM.

23rd November 2018, 03:06 PM	#12
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	"I also appreciate "the Knife or Death," show as it does demonstrate the abilities of various different blade forms; an actual antique barong was used and it did surprisingly well." the one using the antique Barung on the first season was none other than Mabagani as a side, FIF approached me before and asked for pictures from my collection. they ended up using this one: Attached Images

22nd November 2018, 05:11 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	Should we really expect historical accuracy from Forged by Fire?

22nd November 2018, 06:11 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Probably not. Did you see how thick that Kampilan on the show was? A proper Kampilan is a pretty light sword; very fast with a very pronounced distal taper. F.I.F.'s sword tests can border on the ridiculous; the Moro Kampilan has one purpose and that purpose is dispatching one's fellow man.

22nd November 2018, 11:40 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	The worst spinoff from that show is Knife or Death; it's just plain silly.

23rd November 2018, 12:13 AM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	tonite's FIF offering here was the landknicht zweihander. They made two 8.5 pound dull crowbars. they managed to bruise the deer carcasses, one actually managed to cut their deer a bit. they praised the duller one for having broken the spine, even tho it didn't cut thru. The one using the 'I've never made a sword before' guy lost. Mr. Indexing expert said they were so heavy he could hardly raise the tip up. He broke thru a stand of canes and declared this one can cut., even tho he could run his finger down the edge unharmed. 10 grand doesn't buy much anymore...

23rd November 2018, 01:04 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I've always wondered how many of those contestants stumble through here looking for information.

23rd November 2018, 09:15 AM	#9
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	Hi All But FIF does show smithing skills and introduces a wide audience to swords and knives which can only be a good thing for our hobby. I got interested in WWI through comic books as a v young boy and looking at a German infantry mans pickelhaube as he flew a robot bat, long story. But I now know and understand a lot more, hopefully An an introducer to edged weapons it is far far better than the very little else about weapons shows. I sit down with my 10 year old and he is learning all the time and critiques the work. I wish they spent more time on the 5 day challenge at the latter part of the show though. Regards Ken

23rd November 2018, 10:06 AM	#10
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	over here they are also showing 'forged in steel' which has a modern smith recreating weapons a lot more accurately, and better looking, he shows all the steps too. Sometimes followed by Iron and fire, a 'primitive' smith in a log cabin that makes knives, tomahawks, tools, and fancy flint and percussion lock rifles from scratch, and shows all the steps (and occasionally blows things up with tannerite)

23rd November 2018, 02:21 PM	#11
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	Despite all of the historical inaccuracies, I am a fan of both of the shows. Yes, some of the blades are crude and of poor quality, however, when one considers the limited time allowed to make them, it is really quite an amazing feat. I also appreciate "the Knife or Death," show as it does demonstrate the abilities of various different blade forms; an actual antique barong was used and it did surprisingly well. These shows with their introduction to historical weapons(no matter how flawed sometimes), have done more to interest young people in ethnographic blades than all of the blade forums combined, thus possibly preserving this field of study in the future with the " I Phone, "Generation.