Archaic kalis gamble

[Sajen]

Just have won this archaic kalis/kris by ebay, the pictures are very blurry so this is maybe a gamble special because the blade seems to have some corrosion but alone the handle is worth what I have paid for it. The seller don't want to ship to Germany so it will be shipped to the sister of my wife who live in the States. Next gamble will be to get it to Germany without problems.
Also when the pictures are bad feel free to comment, I will post better pictures when I have received it.

[russel]

I was going to make a similar gamble on this one, but you beat me to it! I think it will be a good catch. I look forward to seeing better images when you receive it.

Cheers, Russel

[DaveS]

Detlef: Definitly a good example of a "transition kris". I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a twist-core...........Dave.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by russel

I was going to make a similar gamble on this one, but you beat me to it! I think it will be a good catch. I look forward to seeing better images when you receive it.

Cheers, Russel

Hello Russel,

when you have followed the auction you will know that first there don't have been a "buy-it-now" option. I have contacted the seller and have given exactly the offer he have added later. Soon as the kris is by the sister of my wife I will ask her husband for some better pictures.

Regards,
Detlef

[ThePepperSkull]

Dang! I missed a good one. Congrats, Detlef! I look forward to seeing you clean that blade up and showing us what's underneath.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by DaveS

Detlef: Definitly a good example of a "transition kris". I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a twist-core...........Dave.

Hello Dave,

thank you! And I have the same thoughts like you, there could be the possibility that it is a twist-core blade. Would be a great extra.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

Dang! I missed a good one. Congrats, Detlef! I look forward to seeing you clean that blade up and showing us what's underneath.

Thank you as well! Will need some time until I have it in my hands but I hope that better pictures will us show more.

Regards,
Detlef

[kino]

Good catch. The blade shows signs of corrosion, hopefully it's just the bad photography. The pommel looks intact which is great. Show some photos when it all cleaned up. It's still a nice sword, I would love to have it regardless.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kino

Good catch. The blade shows signs of corrosion, hopefully it's just the bad photography. The pommel looks intact which is great. Show some photos when it all cleaned up. It's still a nice sword, I would love to have it regardless.

Thank you, the corrosion and to get it to Germany are my biggest concerns!
Like said, will post pictures when it is in the hand of my family.

Regards,
Detlef

[mross]

Man, how did I miss that one?! Great snag. I would lay odds it's not a gamble at all. In fact I would be surprised if it was not a twist core. Very good score.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by mross

Man, how did I miss that one?! Great snag. I would lay odds it's not a gamble at all. In fact I would be surprised if it was not a twist core. Very good score.

Thank you Mike,

was relative new listed, so you maybe missed it! I also have the hope that it is maybe a twist core. The gamble is to get it to Germany and that the blade isn't deep pitted by corrosion but the money I have paid is worth this gamble!

Regards,
Detlef

[VVV]

Congratulations Detlef!

I also noticed it when it was posted and then it disappeared.
You are absolutely the master of convincing eBay-sellers to stop the sale and let you have it for next to nothing.

Michael

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by VVV

Congratulations Detlef!

I also noticed it when it was posted and then it disappeared.
You are absolutely the master of convincing eBay-sellers to stop the sale and let you have it for next to nothing.

Michael

Hello Michael,

thank you! But it was a little bit different, the seller has added a "buy-it-now" option in his listing which I have noticed some hours later at the next morning (time difference) but have used it direct. And frankly said it is the only way for me to get such a piece by my limited finacial situation. And we still have to see in which condition this kris is in real by better pictures.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Have received some better pictures from sister and brother in law. Handle intact and blade have corrosion but not to bad. But can't see any hints that the blade is twistcore.

[Battara]

Be easier to tell once the blade is cleaned and etched. Be very careful - I see 2 cracks in the blade!

[Rick]

There is definitely an inlay down the center of the blade .
These edge cracks are interesting; the iron is perhaps tired ?

[kai]

Hello Detlef,

Have received some better pictures from sister and brother in law. Handle intact and blade have corrosion but not to bad. But can't see any hints that the blade is twistcore.

Congrats, you certainly did very well!

I also believe that there will be no twistcore - usually it should be discernible with this amount of corrosion. The remaining chance of twistcore would be if this blade (including fullers) got intensively buffed before long-time storage and the closed pores in the iron preventing the corrosion to show the pattern (can't see any hints though). Blade is definitely laminated, of course.

I hope you'll receive this in due time. I would certainly like to see the laminations after etching - it may help to verify wether this is an archaic kris or a later revival example. Anyway, the scrollwork at the base of the blade is very good quality.

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Jose,

Be very careful - I see 2 cracks in the blade!

Unless one wants to put this piece into real use, I don't think those cracks will be much of a problem; there are also forging flaws from welding the sandwich construction. The blade looks sturdy enough though; IMHO Detlef just needs to neutralize well after etching...

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Rick,

There is definitely an inlay down the center of the blade .

Any silver inlay seems to be gone. I assume you mean the pamor cores sandwiched onto the central piece of steel?

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

Thank you Jose and Rick,

agree that a possible twistcore will be visible when the blade is cleaned and etched. The cracks at the edge I have noticed as well. Could be a forging matter/mistake IMHO.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Jose,


Unless one wants to put this piece into real use, I don't think those cracks will be much of a problem; there are also forging flaws from welding the sandwich construction. The blade looks sturdy enough though; IMHO Detlef just needs to neutralize well after etching...

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

agree with you! Don't think that the blade is very destabilized by the cracks!

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Detlef,


Congrats, you certainly did very well!

I also believe that there will be no twistcore - usually it should be discernible with this amount of corrosion. The remaining chance of twistcore would be if this blade (including fullers) got intensively buffed before long-time storage and the closed pores in the iron preventing the corrosion to show the pattern (can't see any hints though). Blade is definitely laminated, of course.

I hope you'll receive this in due time. I would certainly like to see the laminations after etching - it may help to verify wether this is an archaic kris or a later revival example. Anyway, the scrollwork at the base of the blade is very good quality.

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

thank you! Will need a little bit time, the family in the States just have changed the room and don't have so much time in the moment.
And agree with you about the scrollwork, much better as by the other example I have.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kai

I assume you mean the pamor cores sandwiched onto the central piece of steel?

I understand it also like this.

[Rick]

Yes, that's what I meant .
Those cracks make me wonder if the core material was a bit overworked during forging .

[mross]

Originally Posted by Rick

Yes, that's what I meant .
Those cracks make me wonder if the core material was a bit overworked during forging .

That's the usual reason for certain material, wootz, meteoric iron etc. Another possibility is a failed quench, this happens quite a bit in a water quench.
I'm really intrested in this sword. Looks like a nice one.

[imas560]

Love this type of thread. Is very exciting.
Sajen if you don't mind me asking: what is going through your mind when you're looking at the photos of the item with your family in the States, in regards to steps you'll take when you get the item in your hands.
You've done some nice restorations so you have expertise in this area, you've got some great advice on what to look out for and what to be careful with, so I'm thinking you most probably are shaping a plan for when you receive the item.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by mross

That's the usual reason for certain material, wootz, meteoric iron etc. Another possibility is a failed quench, this happens quite a bit in a water quench.
I'm really intrested in this sword. Looks like a nice one.

Hello Mross,

could be the reason for the cracks. I am very curious what Alan think about this cracks. Can't wait to hold it in my hands to clean and etch the blade.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by imas560

Love this type of thread. Is very exciting.
Sajen if you don't mind me asking: what is going through your mind when you're looking at the photos of the item with your family in the States, in regards to steps you'll take when you get the item in your hands.
You've done some nice restorations so you have expertise in this area, you've got some great advice on what to look out for and what to be careful with, so I'm thinking you most probably are shaping a plan for when you receive the item.

Hello Imas,

yes, of course I have a plan! First I will clean carefully the pommel and give it some oil. The blade will need to be cleaned from corrosion. After this I will polish the blade and will give it an etch.
And I have seen on the pictures that the grip binding down under the pommel isn't original anymore. I wish to know how this sort of binding will be done, would be nice to restore this binding. Maybe someone know how to do this??
Great would be a scabbard for this kris, maybe I find a way to let work one in Indonesia. Or I have one day the great luck to find one day an old one which I can let rework for this blade. On the other hand will look this kris also good at the wall display without scabbard together with my other kris I have, so a scabbard will have time!

[Sajen]

I also have received this kris and like said in the previous post there is still a lot work with this kris. The pommel from supposedly hippo ivory (is this a common material by Moro kris?) was like thought before not firm attached and the upper part of the binding was glued, so I opened carefully the binding and take the pommel of to clean and oil it. The blade has received a first cleaning, until now I can't see any evidence of twistcore. The blade will receice now a polishing and etching. The biggest concern will be to add a new binding in the same way it was originally since I don't know how to do this. It would be great when a member who know how this can be done would share his knowledge. Here some first pictures.

[Battara]

Originally Posted by Sajen

The pommel from supposedly hippo ivory (is this a common material by Moro kris?)

Actually.......no. Usually it's either elephant ivory or dugong ivory.

By the way - nice work. Now for the etching to bring that nice twist core.......