helmet

[Miles82]

hi! do you know something about this helmet? the datation, the type etc?

[A Senefelder]

Some pictures of the inside would be helpful in figuring this helmet out. Based on the little that can be gathered from the pics i'd say that this is unfinished whatever it is. It has the lines vaguely of a burgonet. It does not appear to have had the necessary small notch made nor the rivet holes for mounting the hinges that would affix the cheek plates. I can only make out two smallish paired flat headed rivets near the browline of the right hand front side which are not appropriate for holding in an entire liner and the helmet from what I can see has no other rivet holes for attaching one. There is a decent sized ding missing from the comb which gives the appearance of it being very thick. Do you know how much this weights? The comb appears from the profile picture to run all the way down the back of the helmet to its terminus at the neck which is an bit of an odd feature. Some crisp pics of the inside would be of some help.

[Miles82]

other 2 pics... yes it's thick

[Miles82]

other 2 pics...yes it si thicker

[Miles82]

other 2 pics.. yes it si thicker

[Timo Nieminen]

My first thought was "fireman's helmet". The crest and deep neckguard are common features on them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fi..._HallFlame.JPG

Modern infantry helmets don't have deep neckguards, since they'd get in the way when lying down. Doesn't look look like a pre-modern military helmet to me.

[Miles82]

but i don't have find anything looks like firearms helmet too

[kronckew]

reminds me of a french taunting helmet.

[Miles82]

the helmet is from southern france

[Miles82]

it si from southern france

Miles82, Please allow time for your posts to be moderated. Making double or triple postings of the same information is not necessary.

Best,
Robert

[A Senefelder]

My first thought was "fireman's helmet".

This certainly can't be ruled out as especially in 19th century European examples there were some with deep backs and the variety of large, usually attached crests/ridges in the center often went most of the way down the back neckline. A few thought on that, 1) the crest/medial ridge, in most all early fireman's helmets I've seen this is a separate attached piece rather, 2) construction, many were made of leather but when made of metal were often of brass.

The inside pics are bit light an fuzzy so I can't be certain but it doesn't appear on either end ( front or back ) of the medial ridge that the helmet is welded in two halves, but there are some marks/spot in the peak of the ridge, one of which seems to correspond to external damage to the ridge that appear due to the fuzzy character of the pic as if they might be welding. Is the helmet welded along the peak of the medial ridge or is this from damage to the medial ridge? The internal pics aren't showing me any evidence that this helmet was ever set up to hold a liner, if this were a fireman's helmet, at least a finished one it would have one.

Would it be possible to get something approximating a real weight in pounds/kilograms? There's a big difference between a 2 pound helmet and a 7-8 pound helmet and what they may have been meant for ( i'm thinking in terms of field weight vs. siege weight ala 16/17th century armour ).

[Miles82]

it is from southern France..it is damaged..it is welded to the medial ridge

[A Senefelder]

it is damaged..it is welded to the medial ridge

Are the welds applied only to the damaged areas or along the entire inside length of the medial ridge?

[Miles82]

seems to be in the entire ridge

[A Senefelder]

seems to be in the entire ridge

Well that would tend to point to later 19th or 20 century in terms of dating. Perhaps it was intended to be some sort of fire helmet after all. It still has an " unfinished " feel to me as if it was never taken to completion with a helmet liner ect, but that's pure speculation on my part.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by kronckew

reminds me of a french taunting helmet.

Who are this bunch of merry men?

[Gustav]

Jim, is it really so that you didn't know one of the most splendid movies about the Middle Ages?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGXx56WqqJw

[Gustav]

Same movie, other type of helmet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7Hz1KhN8u8

[kronckew]

i especially recommend the english cavalry mounts and accoutrements for their historical accuracy and the astounding detail, as well as the obvious extent of the training and physical conditioning required for the period accurate battle scenes. the detail on the holy hand grenade of ntioch is amazing. one of the greatest historical arms and armour movies of all time.

[Oliver Pinchot]

James, is it possible that after lo, these many years, you've never heard the Sacred Word??

[Andrew]

Please don't, Oliver. Or you may be compelled to find a shrubbery...

[Oliver Pinchot]

Something tasteful... not too expensive

[Jim McDougall]

OK you band of merry hysterical movie buffs!!! Yes Oliver, it is all coming back to me!!! the sacred words....the shrubbery, and of course those trusty English steeds into battle!!!
These classics never get old!

[drac2k]

While "in Search of the Holy Grail," is a great movie, I prefer "Jabberwocky."