Another Howdah

archer · 4th October 2008, 12:13 AM

First, congratulations Bill, your in for some shooting fun. I got this one in the 60s in Kohat pass in what was then Northern West Pakistan. It's stock was broken as was one hammer,etc. No makers name but lots of British proof marks.
It's been shot a lot with a black powder load equal to a twelve though the bore is about 5/8 on an inch. They push hardily but, not like a 454.
Unlike yours this has an odd oval bore. they cut two rounded lands in it that spiral the ball. It may have been Naval as at one time it had a swivel ramrod. British Officers favored a big a bore as they could shoot, in controlling the locals. Thanks for the reminder it needed dusting.

Steve

Bill M · 4th October 2008, 04:56 AM

Neat pistol! A few questions,

What is the lug near the muzzle?

Was the swivel ramrod exclusively naval, or did cavalry also have them -- so as not to loose the ramrod while re-loading on horseback?

archer · 4th October 2008, 06:52 AM

Bill, Heres an example of the swivels used. They are mostly called Naval. All the pistols used in the near and middle east were usually single barrels. Hence the rarity of the howdah. All the holsters for saddles were for two pistols. It's nearly impossible to reload at the gallop. Hopefully the lug will be self explainatory if this photo goes thru. The day I bought this one I scored an S&W 44 Russion, and engraved Navy colt. All for under fifty bucks total, I was so wired I handled a set of heavy muzzle loading doubles barrels and discarded them, not realizing they were form a double rifle. Steve

fernando · 4th October 2008, 01:53 PM

May i come in ?
I was convinced that the ramrod swivel system was useful and due in any circumstance ... not just Naval or other. You could loose your rod, not necessarily when reloading, but whilst you carried the gun with its muzzle facing the ground, as it would slip through its pipe. More a question of loosing it without noticing than droping it during loading operation.
Pistols in general were carried pointing down, and so were carbines, including cavalry ones.
Fernando

Berkley · 4th October 2008, 03:05 PM

I agree with Fernando about the general usefulness of the swivel ramrod. It was a standard feature of all US-issue military single-shot pistols from the flintlock Model 1819 through the percussion Model 1855. (The only exception was the Elgin cutlass pistol, the design of which made a swivel ramrod impossible.) Most of these arms were primarily issued to dragoons or cavalry, carried in pairs in saddle holsters worn over the saddle pommel. A swivel ramrod for a double-barreled pistol would present some design challenges, requiring either two ramrods, or some provision for lateral movement at the swivel, to permit the deployment of one rammer in two parallel bores on either side.

fernando · 4th October 2008, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkley

... A swivel ramrod for a double-barreled pistol would present some design challenges, requiring either two ramrods, or some provision for lateral movement at the swivel, to permit the deployment of one rammer in two parallel bores on either side.

Or could the lug of this 'howdah' have been for a resource bayonet ?
... just my fantasy

archer · 4th October 2008, 05:27 PM

Gentlemen, Each of you brought up good points, swivels for single barrels were simple. Double barrels used single ram rods but had a second swivel of sorts to facilitate reaching both barrels. I wasn't able to find a clear example. Here are shots of double shotgun barrels where they use a bridge between barrels to act as a catch for their rods. The third shot of Bill's gun doesn't seem to have that feature so as a guess I'd say that the button like thing in the brass stock fixture is some sort of locking detent. Steve

4th October 2008, 12:13 AM	#1
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Another Howdah First, congratulations Bill, your in for some shooting fun. I got this one in the 60s in Kohat pass in what was then Northern West Pakistan. It's stock was broken as was one hammer,etc. No makers name but lots of British proof marks. It's been shot a lot with a black powder load equal to a twelve though the bore is about 5/8 on an inch. They push hardily but, not like a 454. Unlike yours this has an odd oval bore. they cut two rounded lands in it that spiral the ball. It may have been Naval as at one time it had a swivel ramrod. British Officers favored a big a bore as they could shoot, in controlling the locals. Thanks for the reminder it needed dusting. Steve Attached Images

4th October 2008, 06:52 AM	#3
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Howdahs Bill, Heres an example of the swivels used. They are mostly called Naval. All the pistols used in the near and middle east were usually single barrels. Hence the rarity of the howdah. All the holsters for saddles were for two pistols. It's nearly impossible to reload at the gallop. Hopefully the lug will be self explainatory if this photo goes thru. The day I bought this one I scored an S&W 44 Russion, and engraved Navy colt. All for under fifty bucks total, I was so wired I handled a set of heavy muzzle loading doubles barrels and discarded them, not realizing they were form a double rifle. Steve Attached Images

4th October 2008, 05:27 PM	#7
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Howdahs Gentlemen, Each of you brought up good points, swivels for single barrels were simple. Double barrels used single ram rods but had a second swivel of sorts to facilitate reaching both barrels. I wasn't able to find a clear example. Here are shots of double shotgun barrels where they use a bridge between barrels to act as a catch for their rods. The third shot of Bill's gun doesn't seem to have that feature so as a guess I'd say that the button like thing in the brass stock fixture is some sort of locking detent. Steve Attached Images

4th October 2008, 04:56 AM	#2
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Neat pistol! A few questions, What is the lug near the muzzle? Was the swivel ramrod exclusively naval, or did cavalry also have them -- so as not to loose the ramrod while re-loading on horseback?

4th October 2008, 01:53 PM	#4
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	May i come in ? I was convinced that the ramrod swivel system was useful and due in any circumstance ... not just Naval or other. You could loose your rod, not necessarily when reloading, but whilst you carried the gun with its muzzle facing the ground, as it would slip through its pipe. More a question of loosing it without noticing than droping it during loading operation. Pistols in general were carried pointing down, and so were carbines, including cavalry ones. Fernando

4th October 2008, 03:05 PM	#5
Berkley Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Austin, Texas USA Posts: 257	I agree with Fernando about the general usefulness of the swivel ramrod. It was a standard feature of all US-issue military single-shot pistols from the flintlock Model 1819 through the percussion Model 1855. (The only exception was the Elgin cutlass pistol, the design of which made a swivel ramrod impossible.) Most of these arms were primarily issued to dragoons or cavalry, carried in pairs in saddle holsters worn over the saddle pommel. A swivel ramrod for a double-barreled pistol would present some design challenges, requiring either two ramrods, or some provision for lateral movement at the swivel, to permit the deployment of one rammer in two parallel bores on either side.