Pair of dha

Ian · 17th July 2007, 03:37 AM

Anyone have a good idea where these two dha come from? They are unusual in that the blades are dated (in common numerals) and have decorations that are also somewhat unusual. The blade seems a little pointier than usual.

I have seen another 2 or 3 of these style dha and have yet to place the tribe or region from which they come. There is also a square-ended blade version with similar hilt and markings.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=290136723203
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=290136400362

Ian.

Andrew · 17th July 2007, 04:51 AM

This type of sword gives me the feeling of mass production. Not necessarily factory production, but standardized. With access to good materials and tools, a craftsman (or team of craftsmen) could efficiently turn out swords like this. An early 20th century analogue to the work done in Aranyik today?

Mark · 17th July 2007, 03:47 PM

I agree with Andrew that they look volume, if not mass, produced. Definately from Burma, based on the blade decoration and simple 3-part handle, but I don't know if they are from some specific region or ethnic group. However, the square tip of the scabbard points away from Shan, in my opinion. The second one has that pronounced bulge in the middle of the grip that you sometimes see, which might be a clue to their origins. I haven't seen them with a consistant blade type, though. JT and I both have ones with concave tips and all-steel handles, for example, though the center portion is quite narrow (mine has a small band of shagree in the center).

Maybe ~Alaung Hpaya~ can shed some light.

~Alaung_Hpaya~ · 18th July 2007, 12:57 AM

I would say definitely Burmese or rather of ethnic Burman provenance from the shape and style of blade , handle and scabbard . The motifs on the blade are in keeping with this as is the date in common Western numerals corresponding to the colonial era .

These remind me very much of the modern weapons "mass produced" to be used in martial arts practise so therefore I think that they were produced in the 20s and 30s for use as swords rather than as utilitarian tools ( the latter tend to be rather more simple with no markings on the blade and with simpler rattan handles ) . The textured grip and motifs on the blade are presumably a nod back to older styles using more expensive shagreen and koftgari.

Again I would say that I'm no expert on this but the "feel" is definitely Burman.

It's unfortunately not clear in the videos I posted of Burmese martial arts but the standard dha used in them are very similar in style and proportions to these .

drdavid · 18th July 2007, 03:20 AM

I had one of these until recently, they are very well made, solid, and quite heavy with a thick blade. They are well weighted, definitely give the impression of large scale production but not modern mass production. Perhaps made for training or even irregular forces/militia issue.
cheers
DrD

Ian · 18th July 2007, 04:48 PM

Thanks for all your responses.

I did not wish to bias earlier discussion with my own thoughts about these, which are in line with all the comments so far.

I agree that these are definitely Burman in style and from the British colonial period (the Western numerals being a dead giveaway IMO, and the time period is correct). Also agree that these show evidence of machine-assisted production, and that they appear very functional as weapons. The decorations do suggest weapons rather than tools.

A question for each of you, and anyone else who can shed some light. The round cross-sectioned hilts on these swords have three segments. The metal ends have some tapering at their extremities and the central wooden portion is "swollen" in comparison. This "fat middle" style differs from other Burmese hilts, such as those of the Kachin (which are fairly uniform in thickness) and many Shan examples. I'm wondering if there is a particular region to which this hilt can be traced. I've searched through my records and references and have some notions, but nothing firm. Any ideas?

Ian.

Andrew · 25th July 2007, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Any ideas?

None, but this is an interesting observation.

I have only one with a "swollen" grip, but it was a British military weapon. JT has a very nice one with a rather dramatic handle of the type. Without some very credible source, I fear such a small sample will render pinpointing the feature nearly impossible.

17th July 2007, 03:37 AM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,198	Pair of dha Anyone have a good idea where these two dha come from? They are unusual in that the blades are dated (in common numerals) and have decorations that are also somewhat unusual. The blade seems a little pointier than usual. I have seen another 2 or 3 of these style dha and have yet to place the tribe or region from which they come. There is also a square-ended blade version with similar hilt and markings. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=290136723203 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=290136400362 Ian.

18th July 2007, 04:48 PM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,198	Thanks -- and another question Thanks for all your responses. I did not wish to bias earlier discussion with my own thoughts about these, which are in line with all the comments so far. I agree that these are definitely Burman in style and from the British colonial period (the Western numerals being a dead giveaway IMO, and the time period is correct). Also agree that these show evidence of machine-assisted production, and that they appear very functional as weapons. The decorations do suggest weapons rather than tools. A question for each of you, and anyone else who can shed some light. The round cross-sectioned hilts on these swords have three segments. The metal ends have some tapering at their extremities and the central wooden portion is "swollen" in comparison. This "fat middle" style differs from other Burmese hilts, such as those of the Kachin (which are fairly uniform in thickness) and many Shan examples. I'm wondering if there is a particular region to which this hilt can be traced. I've searched through my records and references and have some notions, but nothing firm. Any ideas? Ian.

17th July 2007, 04:51 AM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	This type of sword gives me the feeling of mass production. Not necessarily factory production, but standardized. With access to good materials and tools, a craftsman (or team of craftsmen) could efficiently turn out swords like this. An early 20th century analogue to the work done in Aranyik today?

17th July 2007, 03:47 PM	#3
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	I agree with Andrew that they look volume, if not mass, produced. Definately from Burma, based on the blade decoration and simple 3-part handle, but I don't know if they are from some specific region or ethnic group. However, the square tip of the scabbard points away from Shan, in my opinion. The second one has that pronounced bulge in the middle of the grip that you sometimes see, which might be a clue to their origins. I haven't seen them with a consistant blade type, though. JT and I both have ones with concave tips and all-steel handles, for example, though the center portion is quite narrow (mine has a small band of shagree in the center). Maybe ~Alaung Hpaya~ can shed some light.

18th July 2007, 12:57 AM	#4
~Alaung_Hpaya~ Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 65	I would say definitely Burmese or rather of ethnic Burman provenance from the shape and style of blade , handle and scabbard . The motifs on the blade are in keeping with this as is the date in common Western numerals corresponding to the colonial era . These remind me very much of the modern weapons "mass produced" to be used in martial arts practise so therefore I think that they were produced in the 20s and 30s for use as swords rather than as utilitarian tools ( the latter tend to be rather more simple with no markings on the blade and with simpler rattan handles ) . The textured grip and motifs on the blade are presumably a nod back to older styles using more expensive shagreen and koftgari. Again I would say that I'm no expert on this but the "feel" is definitely Burman. It's unfortunately not clear in the videos I posted of Burmese martial arts but the standard dha used in them are very similar in style and proportions to these .

18th July 2007, 03:20 AM	#5
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 371	I had one of these until recently, they are very well made, solid, and quite heavy with a thick blade. They are well weighted, definitely give the impression of large scale production but not modern mass production. Perhaps made for training or even irregular forces/militia issue. cheers DrD