Nice Kaskara...need help with translation please

CharlesS · 27th November 2008, 08:11 PM

Here is a good old kaskara sword with an interesting double wrapped(apparently for comfort) hilt and an even pore interesting blade. The blade has a snake design on one side, with an Islamic inscription on the other. Both sides have what appear to be the differing phases of the moon down most of the length of the blade.

Can anyone help with the script translation??

Thanks.

Jim McDougall · 28th November 2008, 08:12 AM

Charles, this is one of the most superb kaskara's I have seen in a very long time! I was going to look into it and write on it tomorrow, but it was far too compelling to leave alone.
This is an excellent example of a Darfur sa'if (kaskara) which has seen a long life and the blade is I believe European, it would seem early to mid 19th century if not earlier. It is clear this has been refurbished probably numerous times, and the scabbard is of course much more recent. I would say this is a heirloom blade, and was probably handed down generations, the hilt is put together in working elements, with leather grip cover stitched and the heavy discoid pommel typical of Darfur hilts, as is the puffed cord ball at upper grip.

I reviewed the article by Graham Reed ("Kaskara from Northern Darfur, Sudan" Journal of the Arms and Armour Society, Vol.XII, #3, March, 1987,pp.165-201) and found a similar sword well discussed.
On p.170 it is noted that a sword with wide fuller running the entire length was apparantly in a leather shop receiving treatment probably not unlike this example with new scabbard, and noted by Mr. Reed in his travels there in these regions. This belonged to a well to do member of the Zaghawa tribe who had migrated to southern Darfur due to drought conditions.

The blade was etched on both sides with a snake (probably a python =assalla) and stars combination as well as a Lohr. A Lohr is a wooden board used by religious scribes on which texts from the Koran are written. In addition to these elements of motif, which are of course very much like the example you have posted, this was noted about the Lohr:
"...the Lohr is headed by a crescent moon within a circle. This may be an accurate representation of an astronomical event known quaintly as the 'old moon in the new moons arms' where the dark side of the moon becomes faintly visible due to reflected light from the earth at the time of the new moon".

Apparantly, it is noted, that older men living in countryside often carry thier kaskara when travelling. Years ago I was told by a Fur tribesman that I knew for a short while, that in his younger years, many of the elders kept thier treasured kaskaras mounted proudly on wall, and they were often worn. He also noted the totemic value of the crocodile hide typically mounted on these, and certainly the snake is represented in similar capacity. The rest of the motif may be floral ? or some reference to astronomical events or symbolism, possibly the inscription might offer more on metaphor present.

It is noted also in the article that the pommels are often leather covered, and that the X type cross typically seen on the guard of Darfur examples is also absent from many of these.

Absolutely beautiful, and important example Charles!!!

All the best,
Jim

Now I can get some sleep!!

CharlesS · 28th November 2008, 03:14 PM

Thanks Jim for both glowing review and a kind sharing of information....would have expected nothing less from you!

RSword and I had both had a look at this one, and both felt it was an important piece, just not sure of the specifics, most especially the attributions of the motifs.

I am still hoping that we can get a translation of the script.

Thanks again for all!

CharlesS

Jim McDougall · 28th November 2008, 04:31 PM

Absolutely my pleasure Charles! and I thank you for the opportunity to view such a nice example. Rsword has one of the keenest eyes I know for unusual and key weapons, so I am not surprised he is with you in checking this one out!!
I hope one of our Arabic speakers out there will translate the Lohr panel, and maybe we can get some ideas on the rest of this unusual motif.
I know the moon symbolism and metaphor is often important in the things included in many cases within the poetic devotional passages as seen here.

Really looking forward to further discussion on this!!!

All the best,
Jim

Dom · 27th December 2008, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Can anyone help with the script translation??

New Year Present

<--- direction of reading <--
LAKUM RHALEB FALLA ALLAH YOU SABERKUM AIN BISMILLAH
1211 KEBIR KOL FAOUK AKBAR ALLAH

translation
in the name of God, God will give you the victory and you will be the winner
God is Great, greater than the most great 1796

CharlesS · 27th December 2008, 04:45 PM

Thanks Soooooooo much Dom.

What sort of script is this?.....Arabic letters, but is it Arab language???

Thanks again!

Dom · 27th December 2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Thanks Soooooooo much Dom.

What sort of script is this?.....Arabic letters, but is it Arab language???

Thanks again!

yes, arabic
as soon as it's religious (as well here) it's ONLY in arabic language
what ever is the country of origine, and the language used by the natives

à +

Dom

Jim McDougall · 24th April 2009, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

New Year Present

<--- direction of reading <--
LAKUM RHALEB FALLA ALLAH YOU SABERKUM AIN BISMILLAH
1211 KEBIR KOL FAOUK AKBAR ALLAH

translation
in the name of God, God will give you the victory and you will be the winner
God is Great, greater than the most great 1796

What would this phrase, greater than the most great 1796 mean?
Does the 1796 refer to an event, a numeric sequence?

TVV · 24th April 2009, 10:36 PM

Jim, looking at the way it is written, in smaller case than the rest, I think it is simply a date, and not part of the verse. It seems a bit high, so certainly not Hijra, but maybe Gregorian for some strane reason?
Regards,

Teodor

Jim McDougall · 24th April 2009, 11:05 PM

Hi Teodor,
Thank you for responding. It seemed like a date, but Im trying to imagine what date had such importance in the context with this sword.
All the best,
Jim

Dom · 25th April 2009, 12:04 AM

well analyse TVV, it's just a date
nothing to do with a verse or a chapter of Holy Koran

Jim,
you know, it's relatively common, when a blacksmith personalize a blade sometime with;
- Koranic dedicate,
- and, or the owner name's,
- and, or his own name,
- AND a date of issue

as the space isn't too wide, but long, on a blade
the mentions are, one after the other without at first view a logic

just a pratical sense may help you to make a repartition;
- the religious invocation are well know and often repetitive,
- the mention "made by" "name" indicate the blacksmith
- the mention "made for" "name" indicate the owner
- the mention "with digits" Hegira date

never forget that some engravers are not Arabic speakers,
even Arabic writers, but just they just copy something without sense for them

I just regret do don't have a chance to see a pic for the whole weapon

best regards

à +

Dom

27th November 2008, 08:11 PM	#1
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Nice Kaskara...need help with translation please Here is a good old kaskara sword with an interesting double wrapped(apparently for comfort) hilt and an even pore interesting blade. The blade has a snake design on one side, with an Islamic inscription on the other. Both sides have what appear to be the differing phases of the moon down most of the length of the blade. Can anyone help with the script translation?? Thanks. Attached Images

28th November 2008, 08:12 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,944	Charles, this is one of the most superb kaskara's I have seen in a very long time! I was going to look into it and write on it tomorrow, but it was far too compelling to leave alone. This is an excellent example of a Darfur sa'if (kaskara) which has seen a long life and the blade is I believe European, it would seem early to mid 19th century if not earlier. It is clear this has been refurbished probably numerous times, and the scabbard is of course much more recent. I would say this is a heirloom blade, and was probably handed down generations, the hilt is put together in working elements, with leather grip cover stitched and the heavy discoid pommel typical of Darfur hilts, as is the puffed cord ball at upper grip. I reviewed the article by Graham Reed ("Kaskara from Northern Darfur, Sudan" Journal of the Arms and Armour Society, Vol.XII, #3, March, 1987,pp.165-201) and found a similar sword well discussed. On p.170 it is noted that a sword with wide fuller running the entire length was apparantly in a leather shop receiving treatment probably not unlike this example with new scabbard, and noted by Mr. Reed in his travels there in these regions. This belonged to a well to do member of the Zaghawa tribe who had migrated to southern Darfur due to drought conditions. The blade was etched on both sides with a snake (probably a python =assalla) and stars combination as well as a Lohr. A Lohr is a wooden board used by religious scribes on which texts from the Koran are written. In addition to these elements of motif, which are of course very much like the example you have posted, this was noted about the Lohr: "...the Lohr is headed by a crescent moon within a circle. This may be an accurate representation of an astronomical event known quaintly as the 'old moon in the new moons arms' where the dark side of the moon becomes faintly visible due to reflected light from the earth at the time of the new moon". Apparantly, it is noted, that older men living in countryside often carry thier kaskara when travelling. Years ago I was told by a Fur tribesman that I knew for a short while, that in his younger years, many of the elders kept thier treasured kaskaras mounted proudly on wall, and they were often worn. He also noted the totemic value of the crocodile hide typically mounted on these, and certainly the snake is represented in similar capacity. The rest of the motif may be floral ? or some reference to astronomical events or symbolism, possibly the inscription might offer more on metaphor present. It is noted also in the article that the pommels are often leather covered, and that the X type cross typically seen on the guard of Darfur examples is also absent from many of these. Absolutely beautiful, and important example Charles!!! All the best, Jim Now I can get some sleep!!

28th November 2008, 03:14 PM	#3
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Thanks Jim for both glowing review and a kind sharing of information....would have expected nothing less from you! RSword and I had both had a look at this one, and both felt it was an important piece, just not sure of the specifics, most especially the attributions of the motifs. I am still hoping that we can get a translation of the script. Thanks again for all! CharlesS

28th November 2008, 04:31 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,944	Absolutely my pleasure Charles! and I thank you for the opportunity to view such a nice example. Rsword has one of the keenest eyes I know for unusual and key weapons, so I am not surprised he is with you in checking this one out!! I hope one of our Arabic speakers out there will translate the Lohr panel, and maybe we can get some ideas on the rest of this unusual motif. I know the moon symbolism and metaphor is often important in the things included in many cases within the poetic devotional passages as seen here. Really looking forward to further discussion on this!!! All the best, Jim

27th December 2008, 04:45 PM	#6
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Thanks Soooooooo much Dom. What sort of script is this?.....Arabic letters, but is it Arab language??? Thanks again!

24th April 2009, 10:36 PM	#9
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,621	Jim, looking at the way it is written, in smaller case than the rest, I think it is simply a date, and not part of the verse. It seems a bit high, so certainly not Hijra, but maybe Gregorian for some strane reason? Regards, Teodor

24th April 2009, 11:05 PM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,944	Hi Teodor, Thank you for responding. It seemed like a date, but Im trying to imagine what date had such importance in the context with this sword. All the best, Jim

25th April 2009, 12:04 AM	#11
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	well analyse TVV, it's just a date nothing to do with a verse or a chapter of Holy Koran Jim, you know, it's relatively common, when a blacksmith personalize a blade sometime with; - Koranic dedicate, - and, or the owner name's, - and, or his own name, - AND a date of issue as the space isn't too wide, but long, on a blade the mentions are, one after the other without at first view a logic just a pratical sense may help you to make a repartition; - the religious invocation are well know and often repetitive, - the mention "made by" "name" indicate the blacksmith - the mention "made for" "name" indicate the owner - the mention "with digits" Hegira date never forget that some engravers are not Arabic speakers, even Arabic writers, but just they just copy something without sense for them I just regret do don't have a chance to see a pic for the whole weapon best regards à + Dom