In need of an African scabbard ID

Iain · 20th June 2010, 09:33 PM

Anyone want to take a stab at a tribal attribution for this?

That's lizard skin on the bottom. Well appears to be anyway.

Lew · 20th June 2010, 10:47 PM

Looks Manding to me.

Iain · 21st June 2010, 12:42 AM

Thanks Lew, that makes sense to me. Although I was hesitant to make the ID myself as the sword that goes with it isn't the typically seen Manding sabre type.

Gavin Nugent · 21st June 2010, 01:18 AM

I wouldn't worry about what type of sword you find in native dress. I saw an old English bandsman sword in Manding dress. Like most, use what you have available rather than throw it away, the old Persian Shamshir in Sudanese dress I had is another indicator of this approach.

Gav

Lew · 21st June 2010, 04:42 AM

The sword is a takouba and the hilt and guard have been wrapped over and the tip of the blade is pointed. Funny thing is the grip is slightly swelled in the center which is not typical of Tuareg swords?

Iain · 21st June 2010, 09:18 AM

Yes, it is takouba Lew, which is why I didn't have it pinned as Manding.

Very un-Tuareg takouba overall. Pointed tip, blade geometry is completely different edge geometry doesn't feature the heavily "ground back" look often found on Tuareg pieces, although it has obviously been sharpened many times. Very stiff blade but has some spring. Looks like it's seen some action and has an unfortunate crack in the blade which looks like it came from edge-on-edge contact.

But that comes with the territory of an older piece I guess. It's still structurally sound.

Leather on the hilt is one piece and bound with cord (Tuareg pieces are usually glued or stitched in two separate pieces for guard and handle). Swelled grip I'm 90% sure is wood underneath.

Overall it has a great balance in the hand and feels more like a gladius then the longer, more delicate feel of Tuareg pieces.

Here's a shot with a few more takouba for comparison.

Tim Simmons · 21st June 2010, 09:29 AM

Any chance of some detail pictures of these two. I have one with a sabre blade, I will post at the end of the day.

Iain · 21st June 2010, 10:04 AM

Sure Tim, I think I remember yours. Has a rather unusual cross section? I will start a new thread for them.

Jim McDougall · 22nd June 2010, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ispn

Yes, it is takouba Lew, which is why I didn't have it pinned as Manding.

Very un-Tuareg takouba overall. Pointed tip, blade geometry is completely different edge geometry doesn't feature the heavily "ground back" look often found on Tuareg pieces, although it has obviously been sharpened many times. Very stiff blade but has some spring. Looks like it's seen some action and has an unfortunate crack in the blade which looks like it came from edge-on-edge contact.

But that comes with the territory of an older piece I guess. It's still structurally sound.

Leather on the hilt is one piece and bound with cord (Tuareg pieces are usually glued or stitched in two separate pieces for guard and handle). Swelled grip I'm 90% sure is wood underneath.

Overall it has a great balance in the hand and feels more like a gladius then the longer, more delicate feel of Tuareg pieces.

Here's a shot with a few more takouba for comparison.

Very nice range in this grouping, which gives excellent perspective on the diversity of these Saharan swords. As Gav has well noted, there was little wasted in these regions, and often wide variations resulting as components and blades were constantly recycled.
There was constant movement in trade and tribal interaction as well, and the Manding styling with the geometric designs and leatherwork is recognizable, but widely used even outside thier tribal perameters.
Very impressive collection!

Iain · 22nd June 2010, 09:34 AM

Thanks Jim, I've become almost entirely focused on takouba. This grouping is missing three I have stored in California, but those should be joining me in Europe in August. Actually I have a bit of a project that I'm preparing about takouba in general which I will introduce in a few days hopefully.

Tuareg, Fulani, Manding, Hausa to name only a few, I find the geographical area the type is spread over, incredible.

20th June 2010, 09:33 PM	#1
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	In need of an African scabbard ID Anyone want to take a stab at a tribal attribution for this? That's lizard skin on the bottom. Well appears to be anyway.

21st June 2010, 01:18 AM	#4
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	I wouldn't worry I wouldn't worry about what type of sword you find in native dress. I saw an old English bandsman sword in Manding dress. Like most, use what you have available rather than throw it away, the old Persian Shamshir in Sudanese dress I had is another indicator of this approach. Gav

21st June 2010, 09:29 AM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Any chance of some detail pictures of these two. I have one with a sabre blade, I will post at the end of the day. Attached Images

20th June 2010, 10:47 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Looks Manding to me.

21st June 2010, 12:42 AM	#3
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	Thanks Lew, that makes sense to me. Although I was hesitant to make the ID myself as the sword that goes with it isn't the typically seen Manding sabre type.

21st June 2010, 04:42 AM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	The sword is a takouba and the hilt and guard have been wrapped over and the tip of the blade is pointed. Funny thing is the grip is slightly swelled in the center which is not typical of Tuareg swords?

21st June 2010, 09:18 AM	#6
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	Yes, it is takouba Lew, which is why I didn't have it pinned as Manding. Very un-Tuareg takouba overall. Pointed tip, blade geometry is completely different edge geometry doesn't feature the heavily "ground back" look often found on Tuareg pieces, although it has obviously been sharpened many times. Very stiff blade but has some spring. Looks like it's seen some action and has an unfortunate crack in the blade which looks like it came from edge-on-edge contact. But that comes with the territory of an older piece I guess. It's still structurally sound. Leather on the hilt is one piece and bound with cord (Tuareg pieces are usually glued or stitched in two separate pieces for guard and handle). Swelled grip I'm 90% sure is wood underneath. Overall it has a great balance in the hand and feels more like a gladius then the longer, more delicate feel of Tuareg pieces. Here's a shot with a few more takouba for comparison.

21st June 2010, 10:04 AM	#8
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	Sure Tim, I think I remember yours. Has a rather unusual cross section? I will start a new thread for them.

22nd June 2010, 09:34 AM	#10
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	Thanks Jim, I've become almost entirely focused on takouba. This grouping is missing three I have stored in California, but those should be joining me in Europe in August. Actually I have a bit of a project that I'm preparing about takouba in general which I will introduce in a few days hopefully. Tuareg, Fulani, Manding, Hausa to name only a few, I find the geographical area the type is spread over, incredible.