The great Rhino horn debate, show all?

Tim Simmons · 11th March 2007, 07:20 PM

I post this as it is a splendid picture that you can zoom in on. See how it chips like wood. I would say it is only very slightly translucent due to the thin section of the sides of the cup, the base is rather different. I believe there can be considerable colour variations. Perhaps we could examine the pieces we have and discuss why we believe them to be Rhino horn. Maybe see and learn a great deal more?
http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/de...49.8.127_a.jpg

Tim Simmons · 11th March 2007, 08:07 PM

There are two very good pictures here. One particulary so as it shows the fiberous hair structure.
http://courses.washington.edu/chorda...ntegument2.htm

Tim Simmons · 11th March 2007, 08:16 PM

This.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3Den%26sa%3DN

VANDOO · 12th March 2007, 06:04 AM

THIS MIGHT ALSO BE A GOOD PLACE TO LIST THE MEDICINAL AND MAGICAL PROPERTIES BELIEVED TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH RHINO HORN. IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY IT WAS SAID TO STOP BLEEDING AND OF COURSE MAKE ONE POTENT AND GIVE THEM MANY SONS IF POWDED HORN WAS MIXED IN A DRINK. CUPS WERE OFTEN CARVED OUT OF RHINO HORN SO YOU COULD DRINK FROM THEM EVERYDAY AND STAY POTENT WELL INTO OLD AGE. I WILL ALSO TRY AND ATTACH SOME PICTURES OF HORN.

Mark · 12th March 2007, 03:59 PM

Does anyone know why it is so favored for weapon handles? Is it some inherent quality(ies) of the material, or a talismanic/medicinal quality such as maintaining potency? I don't see it as a particularly attractive material from a decorative point of view.

VANDOO · 12th March 2007, 05:22 PM

I THINK THE POPULARITY OF RHINO HORN COMES MORE FROM THE MAGICAL PROPERTIES THAN FROM THE BEAUTY OR PRACTICAL PROPERTIES OF THE MATERIAL. THE RHINO WAS A IMPRESSIVE,POWERFUL, DANGEROUS BEAST THAT WOULD SOMETIMES ATTACK MOST ANYTHING. UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES HUNTERS WOULD LEAVE A RHINO ALONE AND SEEK EASIER GAME UNLESS HUNTING THEM WAS DONE JUST TO SHOW HOW BRAVE THE INDIVIDUAL WAS.

IN AREAS WHERE THERE WERE NO RHINO STORIES OF THEM WERE TOLD AND THUS LEGENDS AROSE OF THE UNICORN AND ALL ITS MAGICAL POWERS.
MEDICINE AND MAGIC WERE CLOSE TO THE SAME THING IN THOSE DAYS SO VARIOUS PARTS OF THESE MAGICAL BEASTS WERE SAID TO HAVE DIFFERENT VALUES AS CHARMS, FETISH AND MEDICINES. UNICORN HORN, DRAGON BONES, TIGER BONES, GIANT BONES AND ANY OTHER MAGICAL PLANTS, CRYSTALS OR FOSSILS WERE SAID TO HAVE THESE MAGICAL POWERS AND BECAUSE OF THE LEGENDS WERE IN DEMAND. IT IS INTERESTING THAT THE LEGENDARY UNICORN WAS A LAND ANIMAL UNDOUBTABLY THE RHINO BUT THE NARWHALE HORN WAS SOLD AS THE TRUE UNICORN HORN DURING CERTAN TIMES.
IN OMAN THE RHINO HORN IS THE MOST DESIRABLE MATERIAL FOR DAGGER HANDLES BUT I DON'T KNOW WHY BUT IT IS A OLD TRADITION. IN (ABYSSINIA) ETHIOPIA RHINO HORN HANDLES WERE PREFERED IF YOU COULD AFFORD THEM. IN CHINA THE HORNS WERE CARVED INTO ELABORATE CUPS, BEADS AND OTHER ITEMS.

VANDOO · 12th March 2007, 05:36 PM

JUST FOR FUN HERE IS A 8 FOOT 11 INCH RARE DOUBBLE TUSKED NARWHALE SKULL. THE PICTURES ABOVE ARE OF CHINESE CARVED RHINO HORN DRINKING CUPS I AM SURE THEY WERE NOT USED ALL THE TIME PERHAPS JUST BEFORE BED TO INSURE LOTS OF SONS.

UNFORTUNATELY MY OTHER RHINO PICTURES WON'T COME THRU

tom hyle · 12th March 2007, 06:05 PM

In Europe and India the Rhino horn goblets were supposed to either neutralize and/or identify poisons.

Tim Simmons · 12th March 2007, 08:54 PM

I can understand Rhino horn being used for prestige staffs in Africa. Just getting the horn with simple close range hunting weapons would call for skill and bravery. Like lion claw jewellery it would only be available to the nobility and those who they wanted to reward. I would agree with Mark that it is not the most attractive of material or horn. I am trying to take a picture that shows the matted hair on small area of an artifact I have but I am struggling with ability and equipment. A sword hilt made of Rhino horn must surely relate to the size and power of the beast, the magic mythology and last but not least the very nature of such a wonderful rigid upright horn must impress on a male warriors mind.

RSWORD · 12th March 2007, 09:27 PM

Rhino horn made a very practical handle material as rhino horn becomes somewhat sticky when it gets wet. Therefore, sweaty hands stick to the handle versus sliding around for a much better grip. I agree that there were also some magical properties associated but it had a very practical purpose as well.

Pukka Bundook · 12th March 2007, 09:33 PM

Tim,
Only other positive thing I could add re. rhino horn, is that for a sword handle it does give a very good drip, and doesn't appear to get smooth and 'slick' like cow horn does. I gather it always feels a bit rough, even when wet.
This is just what I'm lead to believe, no first hand knowlege on subject!

Emanuel · 13th March 2007, 04:23 AM

Could it be that rhino horn is simply an exotic, rare animal and as such is a luxury commodity? If they had swarmed Africa and Asia, maybe their horns would not have been as sought after.
Would the density of rhino horn be especially unique? Perhaps people liked the weight of it as a handle, in preference to wood, ivory and other types of horns.

Emanuel

Tim Simmons · 13th March 2007, 09:26 AM

Look at this piece.
http://www.narahaku.go.jp/exhib/2005...hosoin-015.jpg

11th March 2007, 07:20 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	The great Rhino horn debate, show all? I post this as it is a splendid picture that you can zoom in on. See how it chips like wood. I would say it is only very slightly translucent due to the thin section of the sides of the cup, the base is rather different. I believe there can be considerable colour variations. Perhaps we could examine the pieces we have and discuss why we believe them to be Rhino horn. Maybe see and learn a great deal more? http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/de...49.8.127_a.jpg

12th March 2007, 06:04 AM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THIS MIGHT ALSO BE A GOOD PLACE TO LIST THE MEDICINAL AND MAGICAL PROPERTIES BELIEVED TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH RHINO HORN. IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY IT WAS SAID TO STOP BLEEDING AND OF COURSE MAKE ONE POTENT AND GIVE THEM MANY SONS IF POWDED HORN WAS MIXED IN A DRINK. CUPS WERE OFTEN CARVED OUT OF RHINO HORN SO YOU COULD DRINK FROM THEM EVERYDAY AND STAY POTENT WELL INTO OLD AGE. I WILL ALSO TRY AND ATTACH SOME PICTURES OF HORN. Last edited by VANDOO; 12th March 2007 at 06:30 AM.

12th March 2007, 05:22 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I THINK THE POPULARITY OF RHINO HORN COMES MORE FROM THE MAGICAL PROPERTIES THAN FROM THE BEAUTY OR PRACTICAL PROPERTIES OF THE MATERIAL. THE RHINO WAS A IMPRESSIVE,POWERFUL, DANGEROUS BEAST THAT WOULD SOMETIMES ATTACK MOST ANYTHING. UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES HUNTERS WOULD LEAVE A RHINO ALONE AND SEEK EASIER GAME UNLESS HUNTING THEM WAS DONE JUST TO SHOW HOW BRAVE THE INDIVIDUAL WAS. IN AREAS WHERE THERE WERE NO RHINO STORIES OF THEM WERE TOLD AND THUS LEGENDS AROSE OF THE UNICORN AND ALL ITS MAGICAL POWERS. MEDICINE AND MAGIC WERE CLOSE TO THE SAME THING IN THOSE DAYS SO VARIOUS PARTS OF THESE MAGICAL BEASTS WERE SAID TO HAVE DIFFERENT VALUES AS CHARMS, FETISH AND MEDICINES. UNICORN HORN, DRAGON BONES, TIGER BONES, GIANT BONES AND ANY OTHER MAGICAL PLANTS, CRYSTALS OR FOSSILS WERE SAID TO HAVE THESE MAGICAL POWERS AND BECAUSE OF THE LEGENDS WERE IN DEMAND. IT IS INTERESTING THAT THE LEGENDARY UNICORN WAS A LAND ANIMAL UNDOUBTABLY THE RHINO BUT THE NARWHALE HORN WAS SOLD AS THE TRUE UNICORN HORN DURING CERTAN TIMES. IN OMAN THE RHINO HORN IS THE MOST DESIRABLE MATERIAL FOR DAGGER HANDLES BUT I DON'T KNOW WHY BUT IT IS A OLD TRADITION. IN (ABYSSINIA) ETHIOPIA RHINO HORN HANDLES WERE PREFERED IF YOU COULD AFFORD THEM. IN CHINA THE HORNS WERE CARVED INTO ELABORATE CUPS, BEADS AND OTHER ITEMS. Attached Images

12th March 2007, 05:36 PM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	JUST FOR FUN HERE IS A 8 FOOT 11 INCH RARE DOUBBLE TUSKED NARWHALE SKULL. THE PICTURES ABOVE ARE OF CHINESE CARVED RHINO HORN DRINKING CUPS I AM SURE THEY WERE NOT USED ALL THE TIME PERHAPS JUST BEFORE BED TO INSURE LOTS OF SONS. UNFORTUNATELY MY OTHER RHINO PICTURES WON'T COME THRU Attached Images

11th March 2007, 08:07 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	There are two very good pictures here. One particulary so as it shows the fiberous hair structure. http://courses.washington.edu/chorda...ntegument2.htm

11th March 2007, 08:16 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	This. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3Den%26sa%3DN

12th March 2007, 03:59 PM	#5
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Does anyone know why it is so favored for weapon handles? Is it some inherent quality(ies) of the material, or a talismanic/medicinal quality such as maintaining potency? I don't see it as a particularly attractive material from a decorative point of view.

12th March 2007, 06:05 PM	#8
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	In Europe and India the Rhino horn goblets were supposed to either neutralize and/or identify poisons.

12th March 2007, 08:54 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I can understand Rhino horn being used for prestige staffs in Africa. Just getting the horn with simple close range hunting weapons would call for skill and bravery. Like lion claw jewellery it would only be available to the nobility and those who they wanted to reward. I would agree with Mark that it is not the most attractive of material or horn. I am trying to take a picture that shows the matted hair on small area of an artifact I have but I am struggling with ability and equipment. A sword hilt made of Rhino horn must surely relate to the size and power of the beast, the magic mythology and last but not least the very nature of such a wonderful rigid upright horn must impress on a male warriors mind.

12th March 2007, 09:27 PM	#10
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,084	Rhino horn made a very practical handle material as rhino horn becomes somewhat sticky when it gets wet. Therefore, sweaty hands stick to the handle versus sliding around for a much better grip. I agree that there were also some magical properties associated but it had a very practical purpose as well.

12th March 2007, 09:33 PM	#11
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Tim, Only other positive thing I could add re. rhino horn, is that for a sword handle it does give a very good drip, and doesn't appear to get smooth and 'slick' like cow horn does. I gather it always feels a bit rough, even when wet. This is just what I'm lead to believe, no first hand knowlege on subject!

13th March 2007, 04:23 AM	#12
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Could it be that rhino horn is simply an exotic, rare animal and as such is a luxury commodity? If they had swarmed Africa and Asia, maybe their horns would not have been as sought after. Would the density of rhino horn be especially unique? Perhaps people liked the weight of it as a handle, in preference to wood, ivory and other types of horns. Emanuel

13th March 2007, 09:26 AM	#13
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Look at this piece. http://www.narahaku.go.jp/exhib/2005...hosoin-015.jpg