Baker Rifle Sword Bayonets query.

kronckew · 29th January 2018, 02:35 PM

As a fan of the 'Sharpe' series, I've read about Baker rifle sword bayonets.

It appears there are three sources:

A) Original GB Military issue.
B) Later Batch made for Indian Issue Baker rifle service.
C) A small batch custom made for the UK 95th Rifles re-enactment group.

I seem to have acquired either a B) or C). Any guidance on telling them apart, i gather the B&C's were unmarked.

Any guidance on differentiating them will be appreciated, i'm fairly sure it's NOT an original broad arrow marked one...bit too clean for an A).

Seems to be little online info & few pics, none i could find here on the forum, so these ( and hopefully other poster's) will serve for future reference.

fernando · 29th January 2018, 07:28 PM

Look HERE

Norman McCormick · 29th January 2018, 08:07 PM

Hi Wayne,
You appear to have the 2nd pattern from 1801, whether it is an original or not I have no idea. This site seems to have pictures of all the variants http://www.95th-rifles.co.uk/equipment/sword-bayonet/

My Regards,
Norman.

Fernando K · 29th January 2018, 08:18 PM

Hello

The saber-bayonet was also produced by private gunsmiths, for the volunteers. Here some variants

Affectionately. Fernando K

thinreadline · 30th January 2018, 10:16 AM

Do you have any pictures of markings on your Baker bayonet ? The back edge of the blade near the ricasso is a typical place for makers mark or on the brass languets for unit marks. Can you also do some pics of the stitching of the scabbard seam scabbard . Thanks.

kronckew · 31st January 2018, 04:46 PM

Picked it up from vendor today. pics as below. Can't find any markings blade has a lot of black oxide staining, no pitting. edge like a butter knife, but very sharp point. brass is oxidised a bit, some verdegris under the languet. Stitching of scabbard is two lines of dirty white thread 1/4in. stitches that cross under the central seam, on the edge side of the scabbard. Blade is 23 in. long, 3 1/2 in. false edge, 5/16 thick at ricasso, 1/4 in. at the false edge. 1 1/8 in. wide at ricasso, a hair over 1 in. at the end of the false edge. grip is 4.5 in., inc. the guard. 4 longitudinal grooves, 26 circumfrential ones. Blade clicks into place in scabbard over the last 1/2 in. or so. Steel spring and button assembly in place, retained by a slotted dome headed screw.

thinreadline · 1st February 2018, 02:03 AM

this almost certainly is an Indian made Baker ... some authorities describe them as 'Indian State Forces' Bakers. In the 1980s World Wide Arms imported a lot of them from India , there is some debate as to whether they had gained access to a State Armoury or were having them made in India . However later on they began to sell ones with British manufacturers names on them , this batch was definitely made to order . The presence of a scabbard is usually a good indicator of relatively recent manufacture as Baker scabbards are far far rarer than the bayonets themselves.

kronckew · 1st February 2018, 10:32 AM

Bit unusual then...

Was just reading about a 95th Rifleman who shot a french general at 600 yds. with his baker, when he was chided for it being a lucky shot, he reloaded and shot the general's aide who was helping the general.

Will M · 2nd February 2018, 01:09 AM

I agree that it is a modern copy.

thinreadline · 2nd February 2018, 09:30 AM

Here is an original scabbard ... repros generally have the stitching along one edge rather than up the centre of the back ..

fernando · 2nd February 2018, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

... Was just reading about a 95th Rifleman who shot a french general at 600 yds. with his baker, when he was chided for it being a lucky shot, he reloaded and shot the general's aide who was helping the general.

Certainly a version of this true episode with an exaggerated flavor. The one that mentions Irish Thomas Plunket laying in a supine position and hitting the General at 100 yards sounds more appropriate. In any case Bakers were infinitely more accurate than erratic Brown Besses. At reading the introduction of "The Recollections of Rifleman Harris", this tome a Scot, Bakers were reputed with a 300 yards accuracy.
We can also read in Peninsular War chronicles that the Brits dispensed a couple hundred of those rifles to Portuguese sharp shooters, while Spaniards were not so contemplated.

.

Fernando K · 2nd February 2018, 03:28 PM

Hello everyone

The 95th regiment was in the English Invason in 1807, in the city of Buenos Aires (Argentina), It was sheltered in the church of Santo Domingo, and fired from the bell tower. However, I end up surrendering to the criollos. The armament of the English, including the Baker was returned to the invaders, by one of the conditions of surrender, which included the abandonment of Montevideo (Uruguay)

Fernando K

29th January 2018, 02:35 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	Baker Rifle Sword Bayonets query. As a fan of the 'Sharpe' series, I've read about Baker rifle sword bayonets. It appears there are three sources: A) Original GB Military issue. B) Later Batch made for Indian Issue Baker rifle service. C) A small batch custom made for the UK 95th Rifles re-enactment group. I seem to have acquired either a B) or C). Any guidance on telling them apart, i gather the B&C's were unmarked. Any guidance on differentiating them will be appreciated, i'm fairly sure it's NOT an original broad arrow marked one...bit too clean for an A). Seems to be little online info & few pics, none i could find here on the forum, so these ( and hopefully other poster's) will serve for future reference. Attached Images

29th January 2018, 08:18 PM	#4
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	Hello The saber-bayonet was also produced by private gunsmiths, for the volunteers. Here some variants Affectionately. Fernando K Attached Images

31st January 2018, 04:46 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	Picked it up from vendor today. pics as below. Can't find any markings blade has a lot of black oxide staining, no pitting. edge like a butter knife, but very sharp point. brass is oxidised a bit, some verdegris under the languet. Stitching of scabbard is two lines of dirty white thread 1/4in. stitches that cross under the central seam, on the edge side of the scabbard. Blade is 23 in. long, 3 1/2 in. false edge, 5/16 thick at ricasso, 1/4 in. at the false edge. 1 1/8 in. wide at ricasso, a hair over 1 in. at the end of the false edge. grip is 4.5 in., inc. the guard. 4 longitudinal grooves, 26 circumfrential ones. Blade clicks into place in scabbard over the last 1/2 in. or so. Steel spring and button assembly in place, retained by a slotted dome headed screw. Attached Images

2nd February 2018, 09:30 AM	#10
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	Here is an original scabbard ... repros generally have the stitching along one edge rather than up the centre of the back .. Attached Images

29th January 2018, 07:28 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Look HERE

29th January 2018, 08:07 PM	#3
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,598	Hi Wayne, You appear to have the 2nd pattern from 1801, whether it is an original or not I have no idea. This site seems to have pictures of all the variants http://www.95th-rifles.co.uk/equipment/sword-bayonet/ My Regards, Norman.

30th January 2018, 10:16 AM	#5
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	Do you have any pictures of markings on your Baker bayonet ? The back edge of the blade near the ricasso is a typical place for makers mark or on the brass languets for unit marks. Can you also do some pics of the stitching of the scabbard seam scabbard . Thanks.

1st February 2018, 02:03 AM	#7
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	this almost certainly is an Indian made Baker ... some authorities describe them as 'Indian State Forces' Bakers. In the 1980s World Wide Arms imported a lot of them from India , there is some debate as to whether they had gained access to a State Armoury or were having them made in India . However later on they began to sell ones with British manufacturers names on them , this batch was definitely made to order . The presence of a scabbard is usually a good indicator of relatively recent manufacture as Baker scabbards are far far rarer than the bayonets themselves.

1st February 2018, 10:32 AM	#8
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	Bit unusual then... Was just reading about a 95th Rifleman who shot a french general at 600 yds. with his baker, when he was chided for it being a lucky shot, he reloaded and shot the general's aide who was helping the general.

2nd February 2018, 01:09 AM	#9
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	I agree that it is a modern copy.

2nd February 2018, 03:28 PM	#12
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	Hello everyone The 95th regiment was in the English Invason in 1807, in the city of Buenos Aires (Argentina), It was sheltered in the church of Santo Domingo, and fired from the bell tower. However, I end up surrendering to the criollos. The armament of the English, including the Baker was returned to the invaders, by one of the conditions of surrender, which included the abandonment of Montevideo (Uruguay) Fernando K