Speaking of Cutlasses

Hotspur · 3rd July 2009, 09:13 PM

Or maybe we weren't but I did want to share this as a watch out for it. These seem to have cropped up a few years ago and then winnowed away. They do bear a small India stamp but that could easily be removed. I had wondered about it as a table example for educational purposes and picked one up a few months ago. Really very much a ringer for the book in Neumann. Watch out! The only really defining difference is that the cup point is quite a bit pointier (dangerous, I have curled that over).

Cheers

Hotspur; not nearly as obviously false as a lot of other stuff

Jim McDougall · 3rd July 2009, 09:16 PM

WOW, I must say they did do a pretty good job on it!!
Thank you very much for the heads up on this, and for including the Neumann reference as well.

M ELEY · 4th July 2009, 08:02 AM

It is scary when even some of the experts are fooled. Neumann is still a substantial resource for swords of this period and as a collector of cutlasses myself, second the "thank you" for this heads-up...

Jim McDougall · 4th July 2009, 05:15 PM

Hey Mark! Ye barnacled scalawag, I knew this would bring ye out!

What do we know about these original cutlasses? Do you or anyone out there have the real deal we can see for comparison? The photos in Nuemann are great but I'm wondering if maybe we could find out more on any markings or nuances that might be key in identification.

Those guys in India, probably Rajasthan, are really good at this stuff!
Thank you again Glen for this very important information.

All the best,
Jim

M ELEY · 6th July 2009, 08:43 AM

Aye, ya hooked me, Cap'n Jim!

Unfortunately, I do not have an original of this pattern, but I am definately planning on adding one someday, when the economy turns...

Although there are similar patterns dating to the time of the Revolution, the India copy represented in this post most closely matches so called "private purchase" cutlasses of the 1800-20 period. There is a very similar one in Gilkerson's Boarders Away under the Private Purchase sword section. Here are some slightly similar swords of the period (despite some of these labeled as "Rev War", I'll stick by my assessment of time-line). One is the Nathan Starr 1826 model.

http://arms2armor.com/Swords/1826navcut.htm

www.american-swords.com/closeups/rev_3964.htm

www.oldswords.com/database/viewItem.php?id=1234

M ELEY · 10th July 2009, 12:19 PM

Here is the exact type being copied- note the third one down. This pattern, with its sheet-guard hilt and fluted grip, is circa 1805-50.

http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/view...g?vvid=4570819

pallas · 10th July 2009, 09:27 PM

the blade reminds me of some of the shorter liuyedaos ive seen recently

3rd July 2009, 09:13 PM	#1
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 499	Speaking of Cutlasses Or maybe we weren't but I did want to share this as a watch out for it. These seem to have cropped up a few years ago and then winnowed away. They do bear a small India stamp but that could easily be removed. I had wondered about it as a table example for educational purposes and picked one up a few months ago. Really very much a ringer for the book in Neumann. Watch out! The only really defining difference is that the cup point is quite a bit pointier (dangerous, I have curled that over). Cheers Hotspur; not nearly as obviously false as a lot of other stuff Attached Images

3rd July 2009, 09:16 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	WOW, I must say they did do a pretty good job on it!! Thank you very much for the heads up on this, and for including the Neumann reference as well.

4th July 2009, 08:02 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,101	It is scary when even some of the experts are fooled. Neumann is still a substantial resource for swords of this period and as a collector of cutlasses myself, second the "thank you" for this heads-up...

4th July 2009, 05:15 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Hey Mark! Ye barnacled scalawag, I knew this would bring ye out! What do we know about these original cutlasses? Do you or anyone out there have the real deal we can see for comparison? The photos in Nuemann are great but I'm wondering if maybe we could find out more on any markings or nuances that might be key in identification. Those guys in India, probably Rajasthan, are really good at this stuff! Thank you again Glen for this very important information. All the best, Jim

6th July 2009, 08:43 AM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,101	Aye, ya hooked me, Cap'n Jim! Unfortunately, I do not have an original of this pattern, but I am definately planning on adding one someday, when the economy turns... Although there are similar patterns dating to the time of the Revolution, the India copy represented in this post most closely matches so called "private purchase" cutlasses of the 1800-20 period. There is a very similar one in Gilkerson's Boarders Away under the Private Purchase sword section. Here are some slightly similar swords of the period (despite some of these labeled as "Rev War", I'll stick by my assessment of time-line). One is the Nathan Starr 1826 model. http://arms2armor.com/Swords/1826navcut.htm www.american-swords.com/closeups/rev_3964.htm www.oldswords.com/database/viewItem.php?id=1234

10th July 2009, 12:19 PM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,101	Here is the exact type being copied- note the third one down. This pattern, with its sheet-guard hilt and fluted grip, is circa 1805-50. http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/view...g?vvid=4570819

10th July 2009, 09:27 PM	#7
pallas Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 53	the blade reminds me of some of the shorter liuyedaos ive seen recently