A Record of Armour Sales 1881-1924 looking for scan p 153

Cerjak · 6th February 2016, 07:50 PM

Hello
I would like to find a scan for :
A Record of Armour Sales 1881-1924 FH CRIPPS -DAY specialy for p 153 or the full book scan would be fantastic.
This armour is related in this page.
I hope that a menber could help me to find this book.
Best
Cerjak

Lee · 7th February 2016, 09:42 AM

As requested...

Cerjak · 7th February 2016, 12:53 PM

Hello Lee,

Thank you so much for this scan.Could you let me know if in the following page there is an illustration for this armour.
Also do you have this book or may be you know from where I could download it.
Best

Jean-Luc

Lee · 7th February 2016, 04:50 PM

Sorry to advise that I see no relevant illustrations on either the preceding or following pages or in the index of illustrations for sales around that period.

I have the physical book as it came with my set of Laking years ago.

Cerjak · 8th February 2016, 04:37 PM

Ok Lee
Thank you very much for your help so I will try to find a copy from the original catalogue for this auction. "armes armures Frederik Muller & Cie Amsterdam 1911"
I know that The armour without burgonet was sold by Charassé, rue Bonaparte, Paris, circa 1889 The burgonet, Seymour Hayden, sold F. Muller & Co., Amsterdam, 26 April 1911, lot 219 and at last The armour with burgonet, Dr Bashford Dean, Riverdale, New York, sold American Art Association, New York, 23 November 1928, lot 148.
Of course if a member know where I could find a copy for those catalogues it would be great.
Best

CERJAK

cornelistromp · 8th February 2016, 06:52 PM

For completeness, the description of Thomas Del Mar, 2 December 2015 lot 146.

http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu...5/page003.html

‡ A COMPOSITE GERMAN LIGHT FIELD ARMOUR, PARTLY NUREMBERG, LATE 16TH TO EARLY 17TH CENTURY, WITH LATER ETCHED DECORATION
comprising burgonet with rounded one-piece skull slightly boxed at each side and rising to a high file-roped medial comb, projecting forward to an obtusely-pointed peak struck at its centre with the quality-control mark of the City of Nuremberg and three circles in triangular formation, fitted at its flanged lower edge, just beneath a slender tapering plume-holder, with an obtusely-pointed neck-guard of one lame, and at each side with a cheek-piece shaped at its upper front corner to fit over the rear of the peak and flanged outwards at its lower edge to form a continuation of the neck-guard, and pierced at its centre within a raised circular panel decorated with an eight-pointed recessed asterisk with nine small circular auditory holes arranged in rosette-formation; 'Almain' collar formed of three lames front and rear, the lowest front one struck internally with the Nuremberg mark of an N within a circle (the lowest rear one associated), and each side fitted with an integral spaudler, the left formed of seven lames and the right of eight (two of the left and five of the right restored or associated, and one of each patched); breastplate formed of a medially-ridged main plate fitted at its arm-openings with moveable gussets (the right restored) and at its flanged lower edge with a fauld of three lames of which the lowest is cut at its centre with a shallow arch separating a pair of long pendent tassets each of seven lames extending to just above the knee (the right associated and reworked to match the left and the inner end of three of its lames patched); backplate formed in one piece with a broad shallow neck-opening and a short flange at the waist; a circular besague (restored) rising slightly to a conical boss at its centre; fingered gauntlets (the right restored) each formed of a long, flared and pointed cuff fitted with a short separate inner plate, five metacarpal-plates, a transversely-roped knuckle-plate, a shaped finger-plate, and scaled finger and thumb-defences, the latter laterally attached by a short leather hinge to the inner end of the last metacarpal-plate, and the whole retaining a fragmentary buff-leather lining-glove; the main edges of the armour turned inward and decorated, except on the backplate, with roping, the subsidiary edges of the burgonet decorated with pairs of incised lines, and the surface of the armour decorated with bands and borders of later etching consisting for the most part of running foliate scrolls executed on a blackened and stippled ground, but including on the breastplate three coats of arms and on the comb of the burgonet, warriors in combat accompanied by a bear and lion on the right and a scroll bearing the inscription HERCVLA on the left

See note at front of catalogue for information concerning stands

Provenance
The armour without burgonet, Charassé, rue Bonaparte, Paris, circa 1889
The burgonet, Seymour Hayden, sold F. Muller & Co., Amsterdam, 26 April 1911, lot 219

The armour with burgonet, Dr Bashford Dean, Riverdale, New York, sold American Art Association, New York, 23 November 1928, lot 148

Exhibited
Worcester Art Museum, Massachusetts, 1928-30

JWHA

Literature
F.H. Cripps-Day, A Record of Armour Sales 1881-1924, London, 1925, p.153
Estimate: 10000-15000

cornelistromp · 8th February 2016, 08:03 PM

Jean Luc, sorry for the wait ....... then here the good news.

the very important helmet of your suit because that is what it is, is attributed to a well-known noble officer.

GILBERT DE SAINT HILAIRE

This is done by the specialist Michele Muten of the Higgins Museum in 1995.

The rest of the harness is in a museum in Vienna
Heeresgeschichtliches Museum.

Can you post pictures of helmet, because it is a historical and important piece.

best from Holland,
jasper

Cerjak · 8th February 2016, 09:02 PM

Jasper,

This is some bad pictures I just made , I will post better pictures later .
Yes as usual you are right !
I still can not believe it.
So champagne , I need to celebrate this fantastic news !
Best

Jean-Luc

Cerjak · 8th February 2016, 09:31 PM

Just found this ! so no doubt possible

Thank you so much jasper !

Cerjak · 8th February 2016, 09:34 PM

http://users.wpi.edu/~virtualarmory/....pl?anum=610.a

CSinTX · 9th February 2016, 03:59 AM

That's excellent! I bet the museum in Vienna would love to know that the helmet has been located.

ulfberth · 9th February 2016, 10:49 AM

Congratulations Jean Luc with this amazing Burgonet helmet!

Not only is this helmet of very important historical value, the condition and even more
the etching and engraving are of superb fine and detailed quality
as indeed one would only find on armor of high ranked officers or people with status.
@ Jasper, bravo on noticing on locating this treasure and its true provenance so fast !

Respectful greetings
Ulfberth

cornelistromp · 10th February 2016, 01:21 PM

very important!

pictures of post 7 are © copyright of Carl Koppeschaar.

please see;
https://www.flickr.com/photos/980156...7634778023741/

and of course the other very interesting albums.

best,
Jasper

Cerjak · 10th February 2016, 06:50 PM

Hi Jasper

Again very interesting link .This picture N°7 and the other of course.
I can see that the standard burgonet is with a similar shape but with a smaller comb ,also the cheek pieces are less elaborate so would be for lower rank officer .But no doubt that this helmet could be associated with my armour .
So the armour showed in the picture seven very similar to my armour , specially the breastplate and collar for the rest some differences in the construction more or less plates for the tassets and rerebraces.
It looks that my armour come from the same arsenal .

Best
Jean-Luc

pictures © copyright by carl koppeschaar

6th February 2016, 07:50 PM	#1
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	A Record of Armour Sales 1881-1924 looking for scan p 153 Hello I would like to find a scan for : A Record of Armour Sales 1881-1924 FH CRIPPS -DAY specialy for p 153 or the full book scan would be fantastic. This armour is related in this page. I hope that a menber could help me to find this book. Best Cerjak Attached Images

7th February 2016, 09:42 AM	#2
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 913	As requested As requested... Attached Images

8th February 2016, 06:52 PM	#6
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	For completeness, the description of Thomas Del Mar, 2 December 2015 lot 146. http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu...5/page003.html ‡ A COMPOSITE GERMAN LIGHT FIELD ARMOUR, PARTLY NUREMBERG, LATE 16TH TO EARLY 17TH CENTURY, WITH LATER ETCHED DECORATION comprising burgonet with rounded one-piece skull slightly boxed at each side and rising to a high file-roped medial comb, projecting forward to an obtusely-pointed peak struck at its centre with the quality-control mark of the City of Nuremberg and three circles in triangular formation, fitted at its flanged lower edge, just beneath a slender tapering plume-holder, with an obtusely-pointed neck-guard of one lame, and at each side with a cheek-piece shaped at its upper front corner to fit over the rear of the peak and flanged outwards at its lower edge to form a continuation of the neck-guard, and pierced at its centre within a raised circular panel decorated with an eight-pointed recessed asterisk with nine small circular auditory holes arranged in rosette-formation; 'Almain' collar formed of three lames front and rear, the lowest front one struck internally with the Nuremberg mark of an N within a circle (the lowest rear one associated), and each side fitted with an integral spaudler, the left formed of seven lames and the right of eight (two of the left and five of the right restored or associated, and one of each patched); breastplate formed of a medially-ridged main plate fitted at its arm-openings with moveable gussets (the right restored) and at its flanged lower edge with a fauld of three lames of which the lowest is cut at its centre with a shallow arch separating a pair of long pendent tassets each of seven lames extending to just above the knee (the right associated and reworked to match the left and the inner end of three of its lames patched); backplate formed in one piece with a broad shallow neck-opening and a short flange at the waist; a circular besague (restored) rising slightly to a conical boss at its centre; fingered gauntlets (the right restored) each formed of a long, flared and pointed cuff fitted with a short separate inner plate, five metacarpal-plates, a transversely-roped knuckle-plate, a shaped finger-plate, and scaled finger and thumb-defences, the latter laterally attached by a short leather hinge to the inner end of the last metacarpal-plate, and the whole retaining a fragmentary buff-leather lining-glove; the main edges of the armour turned inward and decorated, except on the backplate, with roping, the subsidiary edges of the burgonet decorated with pairs of incised lines, and the surface of the armour decorated with bands and borders of later etching consisting for the most part of running foliate scrolls executed on a blackened and stippled ground, but including on the breastplate three coats of arms and on the comb of the burgonet, warriors in combat accompanied by a bear and lion on the right and a scroll bearing the inscription HERCVLA on the left See note at front of catalogue for information concerning stands Provenance The armour without burgonet, Charassé, rue Bonaparte, Paris, circa 1889 The burgonet, Seymour Hayden, sold F. Muller & Co., Amsterdam, 26 April 1911, lot 219 The armour with burgonet, Dr Bashford Dean, Riverdale, New York, sold American Art Association, New York, 23 November 1928, lot 148 Exhibited Worcester Art Museum, Massachusetts, 1928-30 JWHA Literature F.H. Cripps-Day, A Record of Armour Sales 1881-1924, London, 1925, p.153 Estimate: 10000-15000 Last edited by cornelistromp; 8th February 2016 at 07:10 PM.

8th February 2016, 08:03 PM	#7
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	very good news Jean Luc, sorry for the wait ....... then here the good news. the very important helmet of your suit because that is what it is, is attributed to a well-known noble officer. GILBERT DE SAINT HILAIRE This is done by the specialist Michele Muten of the Higgins Museum in 1995. The rest of the harness is in a museum in Vienna Heeresgeschichtliches Museum. Can you post pictures of helmet, because it is a historical and important piece. best from Holland, jasper Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 8th February 2016 at 08:45 PM.

8th February 2016, 09:02 PM	#8
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Jasper, This is some bad pictures I just made , I will post better pictures later . Yes as usual you are right ! I still can not believe it. So champagne , I need to celebrate this fantastic news ! Best Jean-Luc Attached Images

7th February 2016, 12:53 PM	#3
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Hello Lee, Thank you so much for this scan.Could you let me know if in the following page there is an illustration for this armour. Also do you have this book or may be you know from where I could download it. Best Jean-Luc

7th February 2016, 04:50 PM	#4
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 913	Sorry to advise that I see no relevant illustrations on either the preceding or following pages or in the index of illustrations for sales around that period. I have the physical book as it came with my set of Laking years ago.

8th February 2016, 04:37 PM	#5
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Ok Lee Thank you very much for your help so I will try to find a copy from the original catalogue for this auction. "armes armures Frederik Muller & Cie Amsterdam 1911" I know that The armour without burgonet was sold by Charassé, rue Bonaparte, Paris, circa 1889 The burgonet, Seymour Hayden, sold F. Muller & Co., Amsterdam, 26 April 1911, lot 219 and at last The armour with burgonet, Dr Bashford Dean, Riverdale, New York, sold American Art Association, New York, 23 November 1928, lot 148. Of course if a member know where I could find a copy for those catalogues it would be great. Best CERJAK

8th February 2016, 09:31 PM	#9
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Just found this ! so no doubt possible Thank you so much jasper ! Attached Images

8th February 2016, 09:34 PM	#10
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	the link http://users.wpi.edu/~virtualarmory/....pl?anum=610.a

9th February 2016, 03:59 AM	#11
CSinTX Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 233	That's excellent! I bet the museum in Vienna would love to know that the helmet has been located.

9th February 2016, 10:49 AM	#12
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 400	Congratulations Jean Luc with this amazing Burgonet helmet! Not only is this helmet of very important historical value, the condition and even more the etching and engraving are of superb fine and detailed quality as indeed one would only find on armor of high ranked officers or people with status. @ Jasper, bravo on noticing on locating this treasure and its true provenance so fast ! Respectful greetings Ulfberth

10th February 2016, 01:21 PM	#13
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	very important! pictures of post 7 are © copyright of Carl Koppeschaar. please see; https://www.flickr.com/photos/980156...7634778023741/ and of course the other very interesting albums. best, Jasper

10th February 2016, 06:50 PM	#14
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Hi Jasper Again very interesting link .This picture N°7 and the other of course. I can see that the standard burgonet is with a similar shape but with a smaller comb ,also the cheek pieces are less elaborate so would be for lower rank officer .But no doubt that this helmet could be associated with my armour . So the armour showed in the picture seven very similar to my armour , specially the breastplate and collar for the rest some differences in the construction more or less plates for the tassets and rerebraces. It looks that my armour come from the same arsenal . Best Jean-Luc pictures © copyright by carl koppeschaar Attached Images Last edited by Cerjak; 11th February 2016 at 08:11 AM.