modern era Clubs/cudgel, Kom-fag thailand..

[ausjulius]

well this was a topic that has always interested me.

Clubs used in the modern world.

because every country on earth poor guys always needed a weapon and a club is the really poor mans sword , in teresting to not in european countries if the people were to have some social unrest tand produce aclub. as there is no longer a sort of traditional pattern that they made in an uninterupted manner..
they will typically make the clubs based on medival european maces or studded clubs of that medval era.

but when i look at medvial literature i see a great deal of verity in cudgels , clubs , kosh, batons and other "every day carry" poor mans striking weapons..

there seems to have been prefered regional styles and many shapes and patterns used .
not weapons of war but clubs people would carry or use to slove a dispute.. almost an ethnograpic weapon you would say.. as they i would imagine be the products of poor people are more inclined to be regional specific..

things like the irish root ball clubs and sheleighly.. french or spanish fighitng sticks .. ect

it seems up untill the industrial era japan and china. maybe becaus eof laws regulating the masses from carring edged weapons .. seem to have quite a few styles of striking implements. and as with europe.. these are all now redundant.. forgotten items used in obscure matrial arts or show in video games.


it seem with rising wealth, guns, more police... ect these peasants weapons have almost vanished not just from the west but from most of the developed and developing world.


so i was very please to find in thailand they are still quite common.
although they appear really in only one style. although malay style octagional wooden batons can also be seen... basically just like a policemans night stick.. although these are rare.

there is a i guess you would say a "national style of club",
an edged cudge called a kom-fag... or khom-fag..mai-khom-fag.. woden khom-fag. although ive yet to see a non wooden one

ไม้คมแฝก or คมแฝก in thai..

it means something like sharp-grass leaf... in a roundabout translation. and is just in the same manner as the medieval edged culgels.
mostly as a weapon to settle diputes and inflich cutting bloes to the limbs, head legs, not kill the person outright.

as such it is used some what like a sword,

they are really quite popular still and there was even a thai t.v. show dedicated to a hero who used one. there is some martial arts based on kohm-fag use also.
id say nearly every older thai man has owned at least one kohm-fag, and they can be found in many homes.

another style..that thai people just call kohm-fag or krabi.. but which is clearly not is a bamboo root club. looking and being used exactly like a shillelagh,
another thing unique to that clubs it appears that they all are preferred to be fitted with a lanyard, ive never seen one without .
also they lanyard is preferred to be fitted in front of the hand not through the pommel


they are really quite popular items and can be purchased in markets and at most tourist centres, thais are very amused when they see a foreigner who knows what it is, as in western eyes it is distinctly un-club like..

so this leads me to a question..

who else has observed clubs and other wooden hand weap0ns in common use still in a society. outise of of the bantu inhabited areas of africa and the melinesia islands and .. australian aborigines. i dont know if anybody makes wooden weapons to seriously use any more??

i hear that in Bhutan and eastern nepal they still make some kind of fighting and or throwing clubs. but it was a passing conversation and the persons english was not good enough to convey more information other than in bhutan they used to have people who were club makers.. id be interested to see such clubs..

for that matter ive never seen any clubs from india. other that persian exercise clubs. like big cartoon mallets.

[KraVseR]

Thanks, very interested!

[KuKulzA28]

I've been searching all over for more info on these clubs. Thank you so much!

[harimauhk]

I bought one of these in Bangkok last year...in the pouring rain, and in a basket full of rolling pins and assorted coconut wood kitchen tools. It 'felt' like a weapon, even though I had no idea what it was. Mystery solved!

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

I've been searching all over for more info on these clubs. Thank you so much!

yes information is not common at all.

i dont know their origin for sure.
but they have existed in their present form for 200 years or more.
there might have been some limitation on carrying edged weapons in some situations or something similar to that.. but thats just speculation, when they are used they are used in a more knfie like fashion that a club. lots of stabs and cuts, jabs to the face and chest. . cuts to the legs , shin, arms. .. ect


yes i think tourists when they see these they think theyer some household item , because theyer typically sold with slingshots, back massagers, rolling pns ect. other stuff made form hardwood.

[harimauhk]

As far as India goes, the most commonly seen striking weapon is the lathi (now common in polycarbonate), but these were traditional too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gada_(mace)

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by harimauhk

As far as India goes, the most commonly seen striking weapon is the lathi (now common in polycarbonate), but these were traditional too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gada_(mace)

hi the lathi is just a stick or switch like riot police carry the world over. ot really clublike.

i am referring specifically to clubs . like the shillelagh in ireland.. although this is just a tourist souvenir.. where as in thailand one could go to any large shopping centre and pick up a khom-fag


so my question is .. what other countires are such weapons still prsent and generally available. not as some exotic matrial arts weapon but just an everyday tool

[trenchwarfare]

Although not really a weapon, the folk-art "mace" is alive and well in Ukraine. I'm sure KraVseR can elaborate.

[ausjulius]

haha yespopular in russia also , most or many of them are made in prisons. ive seen decorative ones from plexi glass. textolite and stainless steel
theyer some sovie era folk art prison kitch thing. ams with those hatchets you may find from the soviet union with steel shafts and stacked handles. :0

[kronckew]

just noticed this thread, last year i bought a filipino club that looks a lot like those in the first post, it's made of gijo wood (?), a type of iron wood. 26" long

[ausjulius]

hey thanks interesting Philippine club have you more pictures? what is the philipino name?
how is the shaft shaped? is it sharp like a blade or squared off??

i have never seen such a Filipino club before

on a side not there is some speculation in thailand about the khom-fag clubs origin if it was introduced by chinese or where it comes from because
firstly, it originats only in central thailand..
and second it is a carpenters product. never a police tool , never a weapon of war..

and thridly, chinese had an edged cudgel in the past of iron or of wood something like a wooden sword..
such a weapon might have been introduced in the 19th centuar with mass immigration from china to thailand and developed into the more simple form of the thai khom-fag found today...
although im not sure, chinese cudgel is very different in function more like a short heavy wooden sword .. with a handle , even some have a handle wrapping of silk

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by ausjulius

hey thanks interesting Philippine club have you more pictures? what is the philipino name?
how is the shaft shaped? is it sharp like a blade or squared off??

i have never seen such a Filipino club before
...

it's from a company called 'traditional filipino weapons' - he refers to it just as a gijo stick. i guess it's for their martial stick fighting art arnis. the shaft is octagonal, 3 x 4 cm. the 'edges' are 1.5 cm flats of the octagon. grip is 14 cm.,pommel is 4 cm. and has an off set sharp point. the business end is squared off. weight is 580 grams. 'blade is 51 cm. long.

[ausjulius]

hmm interesting , i dont think it is a traditional weapon , quality of the stuff looks good though athough many dont look very traditional patterns.
guiho wood is found in thailand malaysia, kambodia ect as well, cant recall the thai name of the top of my head. but its good for things like runners for hand rails, draws and wooden sliding surfaces as its oily like teak but much harder.

the thai octagonal baton in my first picture its coming probably from indian or malay weapons of this style.
not that common as the khom-fag just has much more power and is faster and more lethal to use.

ps i notices on several forums you are a fan of all manner of clubs and cudgels it iis good to meet a fellow bludgeon enthusiasts ! i have 100s i particularly like other peoples old home made ones

[ausjulius]

on second thoughts that is a particularly odd shape your baton . having a oval cross section like that, i wounder if it is based on some sory of traditional weapon..

[kronckew]

most of TFW's 'traditional' weapons are not very. the proprietor is trying to have his filipino smith make them more so. they are all L6 alloy steel, the grips are simplifications of traditional ones as are the scabbards.

the blades on some are fanciful. some downright odd. their main claim to fame is they are rock solid, and sharp as razors and well balanced. they are not meant as decorations, they are meant to be serious combat weapons.

his barongs are fairly traditional, chisel ground. and his newest kris model has a seperate ganga, two bakabaka, a traditional thread wound horses hoof grip. again sharp as a razor, convex grind. his earlier kris models i never considered. one was even ugly.

i odered the stick last year along with the aformentioned kris. i also ordered a chinese dao from his new new range of non-filipino weaponry. i had a visayan barong from him earlier as a trial.

the UK customs intercepted the order and held it for about a month before informing me that they were about to confiscate the whole order because the sabre was a curved sword over 50 cm., which is forbidden for import, unless i could prove it was an antique - pre 1950 - or traditionally hand forged. oddly, straight swords of any length are OK.

anyhow, after much correspondence the vendor and i managed to convince the customs that they were indeed 'traditionally hand forged' & two months late, my swords (and stick) arrived.

barong, kris, and chinese dao: a picture is worth a thousand words. the dao especially feels like it was made for me. right length, right balance, handles like a dream. sharp as all heck and a proper thick tho distal tapered blade. i managed to find a proper chinese bronze belt (sash) clip to complete the harness.