Middle Sepik dagger.

Tim Simmons · 13th October 2011, 07:03 PM

I have endulged myself with a "buy it now" a fool and thier money are soon parted.

These are ofcorse common, and one should not pay a lot for them. I fell for this example because it shows the Abelem peoples art so well. Also it is a good 15 inches long. Looking closely at the carved figure, it apears to be female. Compare the genitalia to the pictures of spirt house panels I include from "Anthony JP Meyer - Oceanic Art" representing the primordial couple. Clearly the image carved on the dagger is female. I think the form of the dagger itself is male and with the carving a represntation of the couple. This dagger was not cheap but as it carries so much art and culture I felt it was worth the extra cost.

It is rather pretty.

Lew · 15th October 2011, 04:15 AM

Tim

Nice carving. How old do you think it is?

Tim Simmons · 15th October 2011, 09:07 AM

I hope it is at least around 100 years old. It could even be earlier? It is comming from the Netherlands. western New Guinea was added to the Dutch Eastindies in th late 1880s. The strength and confidence of the work makes me feel that it is as I hope early 20th cent. It might even be made from a human femur often taken from the father of the owner which adds a little frisson.

Sajen · 15th October 2011, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I hope it is at least around 100 years old. It could even be earlier? It is comming from the Netherlands. western New Guinea was added to the Dutch Eastindies in th late 1880s. The strength and confidence of the work makes me feel that it is as I hope early 20th cent. It might even be made from a human femur often taken from the father of the owner which adds a little frisson.

Hello Tim,

normally are the Abelam daggers made from the thighbone of the cassowary (Casuarius Casuarius, see also here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassowary).
I don't think that your dagger is old like this but I may be wrong by this.
Here for comparison my example.

Regards,

Detlef

Tim Simmons · 15th October 2011, 03:10 PM

That is very nice Detlef. Here are two more views, all there is un till I have it. Apparently the carved female is not unusual. Looks like it couls well be as old as the one you show.

Sajen · 15th October 2011, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

That is very nice Detlef. Here are two more views, all there is un till I have it. Apparently the carved female is not unusual. Looks like it couls well be as old as the one you show.

I don't think that my one is older, maybe a little bit, but I know that patination in such regions coming very soon. I think a coarse guess let them be from the first half until middle last century. Your dagger shows a nice patina as well.

Regards,

Detlef

Tim Simmons · 15th October 2011, 06:21 PM

This was what I really would have liked, from the same seller. I could see the way it was going £346 so I opted for the by it now on the dagger. Very similar to an example on display at the Berlin ethnographic museum but not quite as fine. One day I will get one.

Sajen · 15th October 2011, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

This was what I really would have liked, from the same seller. I could see the way it was going £346 so I opted for the by it now on the dagger. Very similar to an example on display at the Berlin ethnographic museum but not quite as fine. One day I will get one.

Very nice Papua axe!

Do you know from which region?

Tim Simmons · 15th October 2011, 07:13 PM

It would be nice to know exactly where it is from. I do nt know. Here is the one in the Berlin museum.

Tim Simmons · 21st October 2011, 06:44 PM

This has turned out to be a very lovely thing. 15.5 inches and delightful work on carving and creating a jewel like feel colour and patina. I would say more jewel like than Fijian smoked whale ivory. I have been so taken by melanesian art that I craved my own ancestor spirit out of limestone.

VANDOO · 21st October 2011, 10:03 PM

VERY NICE ITEMS GUYS AND QUITE A LOVELY STONE CARVING WOO WOO!!

NOT MUCH TO ADD BUT WILL ATTEMPT TO THROW A FEW PICTURES OF NEW GUINEA BONE DAGGERS INTO THE MIX FOR REFRENCE.
THESE REPRESENT ABELEM , SEPIK AND AZMAT TRIBES. THERE ARE TWO CROCODILE JAW DAGGERS AS WELL. BEEN MEANING TO DO THIS FOR A WHILE THIS LOOKS LIKE A GOOD OPPORTUNITY.

THE DOUBLE PRONGED VARIETY ARE SAID TO BE ABELEM
PIC 5 WITH NUMBER ON IT IS SAID TO BE SEPIK
PIC. #6 BELOW IT WITH TASSELS SAID TO BE AZMAT
MOST OF REST ARE ABELEM BUT THERE ARE FEW UNKNOWNS. AND SOME MAY NOT BE CASSOWARY BONE.

VANDOO · 7th December 2011, 07:53 PM

I RAN ACROSS THIS UNUSUAL VARIATION OF BONE DAGGER SAID TO BE FROM PAPUA NEW GUINEA SO INCLUDE IT HERE FOR REFRENCE. ITS HARD TO JUDGE ITS SIZE SO IT MAY POSSIBLY SEE USE AS A HAIR PIN OR PICK. EITHER WAY I WOULD NOT WANT TO GET POKED WITH IT.

Sajen · 7th December 2011, 10:15 PM

Here a picture from my small bone dagger collection. The two with cassowary feathers are Asmat, the dark one is Abelam and the plain white one is from one sub tribe of Asmat, I think Kamoro but not really sure.

VANDOO · 7th December 2011, 11:29 PM

INTERESTING EXAMPLES, DOES THE ONE HAVE A CASSOWARY CLAW AFIXED TO THE TIP.? THE RED BEADS/ OR SEEDS ARE INTERESTING , IS THE RESIN JUST A DESIGN OR DOES IT FORM A FACE. THIS POST IS TURNING INTO A GOOD REFERENCE FOR THESE.

Sajen · 7th December 2011, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

INTERESTING EXAMPLES, DOES THE ONE HAVE A CASSOWARY CLAW AFIXED TO THE TIP.? THE RED BEADS/ OR SEEDS ARE INTERESTING , IS THE RESIN JUST A DESIGN OR DOES IT FORM A FACE. THIS POST IS TURNING INTO A GOOD REFERENCE FOR THESE.

Hello Barry,

yes it is a cassowary claw fixed with resin to the bone "blade" and the red seeds are adornment, there is no face to seen. Here some close ups.
The red seeds are Abrus precatorius used by many things from the Asmat as adornment. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrus_precatorius
The white bone dagger is either from pig bone or human bone, both bones have this white "colour".

Regards,

Detlef

VANDOO · 28th December 2011, 03:35 AM

HERE ARE A COUPLE OF MORE VARIATIONS OF NEW GUINEA BONE DAGGER.
THE ONE WITH THE BIRD HEAD IS ABELAM TRIBE (WOSERSA) NOT SURE IF THAT IS A AREA OR TRIBE

) IT IS 33CM. LONG
THE OTHER ONE WITH THE HUMAN FIGURE AND FEATHERS IS AZMAT AND 40CM. LONG. I KEEP BRINGING THIS POST UP TO UPDATE AND MAKE IT A DEFINITIVE REFRENCE FOR THESE. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ADD ANY INFORMATION, OBSERVATIONS OR PICTURES.

Sajen · 28th December 2011, 04:47 PM

Some more New Guinea bone daggers.

Pic. 1: Asmat
Pic. 2: Maprik, either Abelam or Wosera
Pic. 3: Sepik
Pic. 4: Sepik
Pic. 5: Kombai
Pic. 6: Sepik
Pic. 7: Asmat

Sajen · 28th December 2011, 04:54 PM

Sorry!

VANDOO · 24th January 2012, 05:38 AM

ANOTHER VARIATION OF SEPIK RIVER ,NEW GUINEA BONE DAGGER WITH FACE. I PREFER THE DAGGERS MADE ENTIRELY FROM BONE BUT THESE COMPOSITE DAGGERS HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR SOME TIME AS WELL PERHAPS FOR CEREMONIAL USE??

VANDOO · 7th March 2012, 05:49 PM

THREE MORE EXAMPLES FOR REFRENCE.
TWO PICTURES OF A IATMUL, SEPIK BONE DAGGER WITH SCABBARD, 37CM LONG.
ONE MIDDLE SEPIK, IATMUL BONE DAGGER WITH ANCESTOR HEAD, 46CM.LONG
ONE MASSIM LIME STICK, 27CM LONG BONE. FOR COMPARISON, NOT A BONE DAGGER.

Sajen · 11th March 2012, 03:53 PM

Another interesting example just ended on ebay. Described as Southern highland bone dagger.

Robert · 11th March 2012, 06:33 PM

The only one I have in my collection. Sorry about the poor picture quality.

Robert

Sajen · 11th March 2012, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

The only one I have in my collection. Sorry about the poor picture quality.

Robert

Hi Robert,

nice one!

Do you know from where it coming? IMHO Dani tribe, western New Guinea.

Regards,

Detlef

Robert · 11th March 2012, 07:15 PM

Hello Detlef,
I actually have no idea at all as to which tribe made this dagger. The person that I acquired this from found it in a box lot at an estate auction. I was hoping that by posting it here to find out more about it and I thank you for your help in identifying where it is from and who made it. Any other information on this item would be greatly appreciated.

Robert

VANDOO · 21st March 2012, 04:05 AM

3 PICTURES OF A ABELAM BONE DAGGER, 24 CM. LONG, POSSIBLY WITH A RESHAPED TIP.
3 PICTURES OF A LARGE ASMAT ANCESTOR FIGURE WITH CLUB, AX AND BONE DAGGER.

VANDOO · 18th April 2012, 03:02 AM

A FEW MORE TWO PICTURES OF A WESTERN DANI BONE KNIFE 22CM. LONG
ONE PICTURE OF A AZMAT BONE DAGGER WITH BARBED TIP 12.5INCHES LONG
THREE PICTURES OF A CROCODILE JAW DAGGER WITH A TOOTH AT THE TIP 20 IN CHES LONG.

Sajen · 18th April 2012, 09:59 AM

This one ended just by ebay, I was outbid in the last second, a rare Sentani bone dagger found in the lake.

VANDOO · 19th April 2012, 05:46 AM

NOT A BONE DAGGER BUT A WOOD DAGGER CLOSE TO THE TYPE. COMES FROM SCHOUTEN IS. NEW GUINEA AND IS 12.IN LONG

VANDOO · 23rd April 2012, 04:35 AM

PICTURES OF TWO AZMAT BONE DAGGERS,
THREE PICTURES OF CROCODILE JAW DAGGER 23IN. LONG
THREE PICTURES OF CROCODILE AND CASSOWARY BONE DAGGER 24.5IN. LONG

Sajen · 29th April 2012, 04:10 PM

A double pointed Asmat dagger!

13th October 2011, 07:03 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Middle Sepik dagger. I have endulged myself with a "buy it now" a fool and thier money are soon parted. These are ofcorse common, and one should not pay a lot for them. I fell for this example because it shows the Abelem peoples art so well. Also it is a good 15 inches long. Looking closely at the carved figure, it apears to be female. Compare the genitalia to the pictures of spirt house panels I include from "Anthony JP Meyer - Oceanic Art" representing the primordial couple. Clearly the image carved on the dagger is female. I think the form of the dagger itself is male and with the carving a represntation of the couple. This dagger was not cheap but as it carries so much art and culture I felt it was worth the extra cost. It is rather pretty. Attached Images

15th October 2011, 09:07 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I hope it is at least around 100 years old. It could even be earlier? It is comming from the Netherlands. western New Guinea was added to the Dutch Eastindies in th late 1880s. The strength and confidence of the work makes me feel that it is as I hope early 20th cent. It might even be made from a human femur often taken from the father of the owner which adds a little frisson. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 15th October 2011 at 10:33 AM.

15th October 2011, 03:10 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	That is very nice Detlef. Here are two more views, all there is un till I have it. Apparently the carved female is not unusual. Looks like it couls well be as old as the one you show. Attached Images

15th October 2011, 06:21 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	This was what I really would have liked, from the same seller. I could see the way it was going £346 so I opted for the by it now on the dagger. Very similar to an example on display at the Berlin ethnographic museum but not quite as fine. One day I will get one. Attached Images

15th October 2011, 07:13 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	It would be nice to know exactly where it is from. I do nt know. Here is the one in the Berlin museum. Attached Images

15th October 2011, 04:15 AM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Tim Nice carving. How old do you think it is?

21st October 2011, 06:44 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	This has turned out to be a very lovely thing. 15.5 inches and delightful work on carving and creating a jewel like feel colour and patina. I would say more jewel like than Fijian smoked whale ivory. I have been so taken by melanesian art that I craved my own ancestor spirit out of limestone. Attached Images

21st October 2011, 10:03 PM	#11
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	VERY NICE ITEMS GUYS AND QUITE A LOVELY STONE CARVING WOO WOO!! NOT MUCH TO ADD BUT WILL ATTEMPT TO THROW A FEW PICTURES OF NEW GUINEA BONE DAGGERS INTO THE MIX FOR REFRENCE. THESE REPRESENT ABELEM , SEPIK AND AZMAT TRIBES. THERE ARE TWO CROCODILE JAW DAGGERS AS WELL. BEEN MEANING TO DO THIS FOR A WHILE THIS LOOKS LIKE A GOOD OPPORTUNITY. THE DOUBLE PRONGED VARIETY ARE SAID TO BE ABELEM PIC 5 WITH NUMBER ON IT IS SAID TO BE SEPIK PIC. #6 BELOW IT WITH TASSELS SAID TO BE AZMAT MOST OF REST ARE ABELEM BUT THERE ARE FEW UNKNOWNS. AND SOME MAY NOT BE CASSOWARY BONE. Attached Images

7th December 2011, 07:53 PM	#12
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I RAN ACROSS THIS UNUSUAL VARIATION OF BONE DAGGER SAID TO BE FROM PAPUA NEW GUINEA SO INCLUDE IT HERE FOR REFRENCE. ITS HARD TO JUDGE ITS SIZE SO IT MAY POSSIBLY SEE USE AS A HAIR PIN OR PICK. EITHER WAY I WOULD NOT WANT TO GET POKED WITH IT. Attached Images

7th December 2011, 10:15 PM	#13
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Here a picture from my small bone dagger collection. The two with cassowary feathers are Asmat, the dark one is Abelam and the plain white one is from one sub tribe of Asmat, I think Kamoro but not really sure. Attached Images

7th December 2011, 11:29 PM	#14
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	INTERESTING EXAMPLES, DOES THE ONE HAVE A CASSOWARY CLAW AFIXED TO THE TIP.? THE RED BEADS/ OR SEEDS ARE INTERESTING , IS THE RESIN JUST A DESIGN OR DOES IT FORM A FACE. THIS POST IS TURNING INTO A GOOD REFERENCE FOR THESE.

28th December 2011, 03:35 AM	#16
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	HERE ARE A COUPLE OF MORE VARIATIONS OF NEW GUINEA BONE DAGGER. THE ONE WITH THE BIRD HEAD IS ABELAM TRIBE (WOSERSA) NOT SURE IF THAT IS A AREA OR TRIBE ) IT IS 33CM. LONG THE OTHER ONE WITH THE HUMAN FIGURE AND FEATHERS IS AZMAT AND 40CM. LONG. I KEEP BRINGING THIS POST UP TO UPDATE AND MAKE IT A DEFINITIVE REFRENCE FOR THESE. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ADD ANY INFORMATION, OBSERVATIONS OR PICTURES. Attached Images

28th December 2011, 04:47 PM	#17
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Some more New Guinea bone daggers. Pic. 1: Asmat Pic. 2: Maprik, either Abelam or Wosera Pic. 3: Sepik Pic. 4: Sepik Pic. 5: Kombai Pic. 6: Sepik Pic. 7: Asmat Attached Images

28th December 2011, 04:54 PM	#18
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Sorry! Last edited by Sajen; 28th December 2011 at 08:54 PM. Reason: I am unsure if the information is correct

24th January 2012, 05:38 AM	#19
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	ANOTHER VARIATION OF SEPIK RIVER ,NEW GUINEA BONE DAGGER WITH FACE. I PREFER THE DAGGERS MADE ENTIRELY FROM BONE BUT THESE COMPOSITE DAGGERS HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR SOME TIME AS WELL PERHAPS FOR CEREMONIAL USE?? Attached Images

7th March 2012, 05:49 PM	#20
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THREE MORE EXAMPLES FOR REFRENCE. TWO PICTURES OF A IATMUL, SEPIK BONE DAGGER WITH SCABBARD, 37CM LONG. ONE MIDDLE SEPIK, IATMUL BONE DAGGER WITH ANCESTOR HEAD, 46CM.LONG ONE MASSIM LIME STICK, 27CM LONG BONE. FOR COMPARISON, NOT A BONE DAGGER. Attached Images

11th March 2012, 03:53 PM	#21
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Another interesting example just ended on ebay. Described as Southern highland bone dagger. Attached Images

11th March 2012, 06:33 PM	#22
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	The only one I have in my collection. Sorry about the poor picture quality. Robert Attached Images

11th March 2012, 07:15 PM	#24
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Detlef, I actually have no idea at all as to which tribe made this dagger. The person that I acquired this from found it in a box lot at an estate auction. I was hoping that by posting it here to find out more about it and I thank you for your help in identifying where it is from and who made it. Any other information on this item would be greatly appreciated. Robert

21st March 2012, 04:05 AM	#25
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	3 PICTURES OF A ABELAM BONE DAGGER, 24 CM. LONG, POSSIBLY WITH A RESHAPED TIP. 3 PICTURES OF A LARGE ASMAT ANCESTOR FIGURE WITH CLUB, AX AND BONE DAGGER. Attached Images

18th April 2012, 03:02 AM	#26
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A FEW MORE TWO PICTURES OF A WESTERN DANI BONE KNIFE 22CM. LONG ONE PICTURE OF A AZMAT BONE DAGGER WITH BARBED TIP 12.5INCHES LONG THREE PICTURES OF A CROCODILE JAW DAGGER WITH A TOOTH AT THE TIP 20 IN CHES LONG. Attached Images

18th April 2012, 09:59 AM	#27
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	This one ended just by ebay, I was outbid in the last second, a rare Sentani bone dagger found in the lake. Attached Images

19th April 2012, 05:46 AM	#28
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	NOT A BONE DAGGER BUT A WOOD DAGGER CLOSE TO THE TYPE. COMES FROM SCHOUTEN IS. NEW GUINEA AND IS 12.IN LONG Attached Images

23rd April 2012, 04:35 AM	#29
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	PICTURES OF TWO AZMAT BONE DAGGERS, THREE PICTURES OF CROCODILE JAW DAGGER 23IN. LONG THREE PICTURES OF CROCODILE AND CASSOWARY BONE DAGGER 24.5IN. LONG Attached Images

29th April 2012, 04:10 PM	#30
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	A double pointed Asmat dagger! Attached Images