Sword Cane / Swagger Stick?

kino · 18th February 2024, 08:53 PM

I’ve had this for quite a while, fittings of brass and copper. The brass seems to be from ammunition shells.
The iron locking mechanism doesn’t seem to be shade tree manufacture.
The blade has a diamond cross section.
The wood has some flashing grains.
Any idea as to where this was put together?

Ian · 19th February 2024, 02:41 AM

Hi kino.

Perhaps Tim Simmons or other club and stick aficionados here can give you a precise answer.

I have seen several similar triangular-shaped blades on sword sticks described as British. Some of these may have come from Africa or India, via colonial or traveling Brits in the 19th C. Also a couple of French examples. The button locking mechanism seems common on many sword sticks.

These are illegal to own in Australia, so I don't have a lot of experience handling them. Mainly what I have seen on online auctions.

kino · 19th February 2024, 06:40 PM

Thanks Ian

Sajen · 19th February 2024, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

These are illegal to own in Australia, so I don't have a lot of experience handling them. Mainly what I have seen on online auctions.

Hello Albert,

It's the same in Germany, such hidden blades are forbidden in Germany so I can't be of help, sorry.

Regards,
Detlef

Tim Simmons · 19th February 2024, 08:10 PM

Same in the UK. Looks a bit shabby for a British gent to have.

Jim McDougall · 19th February 2024, 08:17 PM

Kino, you might notice the thread I just opened in the MISC. forum...very interesting example. Ammunition shells of course seem common from 'trench art' about WWI and perhaps this was assembled from souvenir items of that period.

Martin Lubojacky · 20th February 2024, 10:03 AM

Similar sticks, in which was hidden a blade of diamond cross-section, but about 10 - 30 cm longer, used to be common in Ethiopia, where they were "importantly" worn under the arm by various guards, guarding especially dwellings and various gates. These guards are cold "zabaňa". Sticks were made in a wide range of qualities, from the simplest wooden ones to decorated with silver or ivory. The narrower end of the wooden cane was often covered with a cartridge case. I'd say the trend ended in the 1970s. Private Zabaňas are still around, a lot, but now they carry police batons...

Ian · 20th February 2024, 10:27 AM

Martin L,

Thanks for posting those examples. I think I would call these "swagger sticks" even though the owners were not officers in a regular army.

Martin Lubojacky · 20th February 2024, 12:21 PM

Yes, basically swagger sticks...

kino · 23rd February 2024, 07:32 PM

Thanks for your comments fellas.
It seems like the blade is pretty generic.

Jim, Thanks for placing a possible date on it. I’ll head on over to the Misc. forums and have a read.

milandro · 24th February 2024, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Same in the UK. Looks a bit shabby for a British gent to have.

I understand indeed that sword canes are illegal in the UK ( as they are in the NL) and that is why I was very surprised to see one auctioned at the TV program " Flog It" , but they seemed to have no problem in doing so.

Was auctioned, Had a look, at an auction house called Clark's

I was born in Italy and in the family there was this memory of my grandfather's brother, my great-uncle , Eduardo owning (and apparently the legend reports him using it to defend himself , however family legends are best taken with a large rock of salt) a sword cane. Both my father and my cousin (he is 20 year older than me) remembered seeing this but it disappeared.

Owning any kind of cold weapon , in theory, is not allowed in Italy unless you are a registered collector . In the NL things are easier but still these canes are absolutely a NO-NO

RobT · 24th February 2024, 03:27 PM

Hi All,

I was reading the comments by some of the European members about sword canes being illegal in their respective countries. Here in the US, it is ok to own sword canes as long as the owners don't carry them in public (concealed weapon carry). I have been around for a while and I can only recall one incident in my life when somebody was stabbed with a sword cane. Actually, it was a sword umbrella (a la John Steed) wielded by a teenage boy. Given the lack of incidents in the US, it is pretty easy to see why the authorities are pretty relaxed about sword (or umbrella) cane ownership. I wonder what experiences in the European countries have led to their bans. Or is it just a case of "you can't have that because I say so and I'm the mommy, that's why".
In a similar fashion, switchblade knives have been illegal throughout the US since the fifties but when I went to Spain in the seventies, they were readily available. I gather that is no longer the case in Europe but in the US, switchblades are now being sold legally in some states and nobody seems to be too upset about it while in some other states, any knife that can be opened with one hand (including balisongs, and thumbers) can't be sold (I'm not sure if this ban includes knives without a backspring).
It would really be nice if people empowered to make laws were required to provide well documented data to support the need for laws that infringe on personal freedom. Those laws should also be evaluated for their effectiveness and unintended consequences. Maybe, if the people making laws had their work scrutinized by jaundiced review, we would get less but more effective laws.

Sincerely,
RobT

Norman McCormick · 25th February 2024, 03:33 PM

Hi,
It is not illegal in the U.K. to own a sword stick providing it is an antique. This normally means more than 100yrs old but I would suspect to stay within the spirit of the law Victorian or earlier would be the only ones acceptable. It must not be taken outside as then it would be classed as a concealed weapon. Supposed to be an automatic 5 yrs in the 'pokey' for carrying an illegal blade in public but I don't know how rigorously this term is enforced but I would suspect there would be a definite custodial element if caught. There are quite a number of Victorian sword sticks/canes in local auctions up and down the country and I have never heard of a problem buying or selling one at auction.
Regards,
Norman.

kronckew · 25th February 2024, 05:57 PM

My swagger dagger stick

It's covered in leather, has a socket for the blade, no button needed, Sharp single edged 34 cm. x1.25 cm. blade, 5cm false edge (not sharp), 7cm. ricasso,13 cm. grip inc. the bolster, wicked little devil. 53CM. overall. 2cm. thick. weight 245 gm. One small rust spot now gone, and a little shoe polish covered all the scrape marks in the leather.

GIO · 25th February 2024, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milandro

I

Owning any kind of cold weapon , in theory, is not allowed in Italy unless you are a registered collector . In the NL things are easier but still these canes are absolutely a NO-NO

Yes, in theory. Flea markets in Italy often have keris and any other kind of blades, swords included, free for sale. Never seen a policeman questioning about such items. According to the law, anybody owing such weapons should get an authorization or at least report the ownership to the police. The problem is that you are not in a position to attest the provenance, since the seller does not make any declaration, and for sure flea markets sellers are not allowed to trade weapons. Quite a confusion....

18th February 2024, 08:53 PM	#1
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Sword Cane / Swagger Stick? I’ve had this for quite a while, fittings of brass and copper. The brass seems to be from ammunition shells. The iron locking mechanism doesn’t seem to be shade tree manufacture. The blade has a diamond cross section. The wood has some flashing grains. Any idea as to where this was put together? Attached Images

20th February 2024, 10:03 AM	#7
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	Similar sticks, in which was hidden a blade of diamond cross-section, but about 10 - 30 cm longer, used to be common in Ethiopia, where they were "importantly" worn under the arm by various guards, guarding especially dwellings and various gates. These guards are cold "zabaňa". Sticks were made in a wide range of qualities, from the simplest wooden ones to decorated with silver or ivory. The narrower end of the wooden cane was often covered with a cartridge case. I'd say the trend ended in the 1970s. Private Zabaňas are still around, a lot, but now they carry police batons... Attached Images

24th February 2024, 03:27 PM	#12
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 489	Laws Don't Need Factual Support Hi All, I was reading the comments by some of the European members about sword canes being illegal in their respective countries. Here in the US, it is ok to own sword canes as long as the owners don't carry them in public (concealed weapon carry). I have been around for a while and I can only recall one incident in my life when somebody was stabbed with a sword cane. Actually, it was a sword umbrella (a la John Steed) wielded by a teenage boy. Given the lack of incidents in the US, it is pretty easy to see why the authorities are pretty relaxed about sword (or umbrella) cane ownership. I wonder what experiences in the European countries have led to their bans. Or is it just a case of "you can't have that because I say so and I'm the mommy, that's why". In a similar fashion, switchblade knives have been illegal throughout the US since the fifties but when I went to Spain in the seventies, they were readily available. I gather that is no longer the case in Europe but in the US, switchblades are now being sold legally in some states and nobody seems to be too upset about it while in some other states, any knife that can be opened with one hand (including balisongs, and thumbers) can't be sold (I'm not sure if this ban includes knives without a backspring). It would really be nice if people empowered to make laws were required to provide well documented data to support the need for laws that infringe on personal freedom. Those laws should also be evaluated for their effectiveness and unintended consequences. Maybe, if the people making laws had their work scrutinized by jaundiced review, we would get less but more effective laws. Sincerely, RobT

25th February 2024, 05:57 PM	#14
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	My swagger dagger stick It's covered in leather, has a socket for the blade, no button needed, Sharp single edged 34 cm. x1.25 cm. blade, 5cm false edge (not sharp), 7cm. ricasso,13 cm. grip inc. the bolster, wicked little devil. 53CM. overall. 2cm. thick. weight 245 gm. One small rust spot now gone, and a little shoe polish covered all the scrape marks in the leather. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 25th February 2024 at 06:14 PM.

19th February 2024, 02:41 AM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Hi kino. Perhaps Tim Simmons or other club and stick aficionados here can give you a precise answer. I have seen several similar triangular-shaped blades on sword sticks described as British. Some of these may have come from Africa or India, via colonial or traveling Brits in the 19th C. Also a couple of French examples. The button locking mechanism seems common on many sword sticks. These are illegal to own in Australia, so I don't have a lot of experience handling them. Mainly what I have seen on online auctions.

19th February 2024, 06:40 PM	#3
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Thanks Ian

19th February 2024, 08:10 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Same in the UK. Looks a bit shabby for a British gent to have.

19th February 2024, 08:17 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Kino, you might notice the thread I just opened in the MISC. forum...very interesting example. Ammunition shells of course seem common from 'trench art' about WWI and perhaps this was assembled from souvenir items of that period.

20th February 2024, 10:27 AM	#8
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Martin L, Thanks for posting those examples. I think I would call these "swagger sticks" even though the owners were not officers in a regular army.

20th February 2024, 12:21 PM	#9
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	Yes, basically swagger sticks...

23rd February 2024, 07:32 PM	#10
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Thanks for your comments fellas. It seems like the blade is pretty generic. Jim, Thanks for placing a possible date on it. I’ll head on over to the Misc. forums and have a read.

25th February 2024, 03:33 PM	#13
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi, It is not illegal in the U.K. to own a sword stick providing it is an antique. This normally means more than 100yrs old but I would suspect to stay within the spirit of the law Victorian or earlier would be the only ones acceptable. It must not be taken outside as then it would be classed as a concealed weapon. Supposed to be an automatic 5 yrs in the 'pokey' for carrying an illegal blade in public but I don't know how rigorously this term is enforced but I would suspect there would be a definite custodial element if caught. There are quite a number of Victorian sword sticks/canes in local auctions up and down the country and I have never heard of a problem buying or selling one at auction. Regards, Norman.