Balato

henri · 21st January 2011, 01:44 AM

Last one brought into my luggages last week .

Not cleaned yet but probably recent .Difficult to estimate age .... Ball is a new one made in wood but interesting hilt.
Any comments always welcomed !

Henri

Nagawarrior · 21st January 2011, 09:32 AM

I like henri. As I understand it, most of these are recent. The old ones from the Headhunting times(pre-1887) are very rare indeed. Some concider the old ones the only "real" swords, all other are tourist. Do a forum search and see what I mean, not a pretty picture in some cases. Mine is my Wife's favorite sword in my collection, whether its old or not, its pretty. Its all in the eye of the beholder.

asomotif · 21st January 2011, 12:58 PM

Hello Henri,

Although the ball has wooden teeth the whole ensemble looks original and the patina does not look fake to me.
So this may be a post WW2 example for ceremonial use

For the right price I would not mind to bump into one of these.
Sad enough to often such items are presented as antique at a too high price.

Mytribalworld · 22nd January 2011, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henri

Last one brought into my luggages last week .

Not cleaned yet but probably recent .Difficult to estimate age .... Ball is a new one made in wood but interesting hilt.
Any comments always welcomed !

Henri

Hi Henry,

Your balato looks to me as a post WW2 piece but seems to be good carved with some style variations typical for that time.
I think its a piece from the 70's or so with less patina and what they sadly did was adding a black ugly patina to make it look older ( so more expensive)
I think they did that by painting and burning( the wet paint), it looks a little crusty.

however I mostly don't advice

to clean old weaponery I think the piece will look much better if you clean the hilt very carefully with steelwool.

regards Arjan

Battara · 23rd January 2011, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandaukudi

I think they did that by painting and burning( the wet paint), it looks a little crusty.

however I mostly don't advice

to clean old weaponery I think the piece will look much better if you clean the hilt very carefully with steelwool.

What about the ball of "tusks" on the scabbard?

Mytribalworld · 23rd January 2011, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

What about the ball of "tusks" on the scabbard?

if it was my sword I should remove the ball completely or remove the wooden tusks ( carefully ) and try to hunt for some real tusks on ebay or so.

wooden tusks wheren't used on Nias, the reason why they added tusks on the ball was by the ideas of animistic belief to load up the sword ( or actually the ball) with power as teeth,horns etc are fastgrowers.
it shouldn't have not any sense to add wooden replica's

in original old charmsballs the tusks are often elongated with wooden pegs to make them round around the ball. ( I will see if I can find a pic)

Arjan

Battara · 23rd January 2011, 07:01 PM

Thank you. Did not realize they were wooden.

asomotif · 23rd January 2011, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandaukudi

if it was my sword I should remove the ball completely or remove the wooden tusks ( carefully ) and try to hunt for some real tusks on ebay or so.

Hi Arjan,
It is on scarce occasions that we differ

But is this case I would advise not to alter the ball.
It is a mid 20th century balato that was either made for ceremonial dancing or maybe as a tourist item.
But it is not an old pre 1900 headhunters sword.
So why change the balato into an old (pre 1900) sword which it simply is not.

henri · 23rd January 2011, 10:50 PM

Thank you all for your feed backs . Still this dilemma : change / alter or not change the ball ? I could easily find here boar tusks and replace just the wooden tusks . Will look better for sure ...but still not an old one . Anyway it s always a compromise !

Cheers

Henri

VANDOO · 24th January 2011, 07:51 AM

I HAVE ALWAYS LIKED THESE AND SAW A VERY GOOD TRAVELING EXHIBIT FROM NIAS AT THE ART MUSEUM IN HOUSTON IN THE 1980'S. THEY ALSO HAVE A NICE EXAMPLE IN THEIR COLLECTION. HERE ARE A FEW PICTURES ONE OF NIAS VILLAGE GAURDS IN FULL REGALIA NOTE THE FLARED METAL ARMOR AND TUSKS ON THEIR HEAD GEAR. ONE SWORD HAS THE AMULET BALL EXPOSED WITH NO AMULET INSIDE OR TEETH ATTACHED, OTHERS HAVE AMULET BALLS WITH PIG TUSKS, CROCODILE TEETH, TIGER OR BIG CAT TEETH AND ONE HAS AN AMULET BOTTLE FIXED BETWEEN TWO TIGER TEETH. ONE FETISH BALL HAS CROCODILE TEETH, TIGER TEETH AND CLAWS. THERE ARE OTHER POSTS ON NIAS SO YOU MIGHT TAKE A LOOK

MY EXAMPLE OF A BALATO IS LIKE YOURS CARVED WOOD TEETH ON THE FETISH BALL BUT THE SWORD WOULD SERVE VERY WELL AS A WEAPON. THE MAGIC PROBABLY DOSEN'T WORK VERY WELL WITH AN EMPTY FETISH BALL WITH WOODEN TEETH

Mytribalworld · 24th January 2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Hi Arjan,
It is on scarce occasions that we differ

But is this case I would advise not to alter the ball.
It is a mid 20th century balato that was either made for ceremonial dancing or maybe as a tourist item.
But it is not an old pre 1900 headhunters sword.
So why change the balato into an old (pre 1900) sword which it simply is not.

Willem, it was not the intension to "alter" the piece and its also not the case that "only" the pre 1900 headhuntersswords has real tusk charmballs.
also after the WW2 we see "warriors" on Nias walking around with tusks charmballs. Its more that I have strongly the idea that such balls are added on Bali to sell them as complete sword.
than it should be more ethographical correct to add real tusks than let the "Bali ball"" where it is now, I think.
But of course if you want to see the sword in its original state you shouldn't add anything.

Arjan

VANDOO · 25th February 2011, 02:41 AM

CLOSEUP OF FETISH BALL NIAS PIG TUSKS

migueldiaz · 25th February 2011, 05:31 AM

wonderful pics. thanks all for sharing!

asomotif · 25th February 2011, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

CLOSEUP OF FETISH BALL NIAS PIG TUSKS

With nylon wire. Pfew, I hope you did not spend money on that one

VANDOO · 25th February 2011, 08:23 AM

NOPE! NO MONEY SPENT JUST CAPTURED THE PICTURE TO SHOW HOW ITS DONE.
THE SWORD I HAVE IS EVEN WORSE IT HAS CARVED WOODEN TEETH BUT THE PRICE WAS RIGHT AND IT WAS BETTER THAN NOTHING.

21st January 2011, 01:44 AM	#1
henri Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 81	Balato Last one brought into my luggages last week . Not cleaned yet but probably recent .Difficult to estimate age .... Ball is a new one made in wood but interesting hilt. Any comments always welcomed ! Henri Attached Images

24th January 2011, 07:51 AM	#10
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAVE ALWAYS LIKED THESE AND SAW A VERY GOOD TRAVELING EXHIBIT FROM NIAS AT THE ART MUSEUM IN HOUSTON IN THE 1980'S. THEY ALSO HAVE A NICE EXAMPLE IN THEIR COLLECTION. HERE ARE A FEW PICTURES ONE OF NIAS VILLAGE GAURDS IN FULL REGALIA NOTE THE FLARED METAL ARMOR AND TUSKS ON THEIR HEAD GEAR. ONE SWORD HAS THE AMULET BALL EXPOSED WITH NO AMULET INSIDE OR TEETH ATTACHED, OTHERS HAVE AMULET BALLS WITH PIG TUSKS, CROCODILE TEETH, TIGER OR BIG CAT TEETH AND ONE HAS AN AMULET BOTTLE FIXED BETWEEN TWO TIGER TEETH. ONE FETISH BALL HAS CROCODILE TEETH, TIGER TEETH AND CLAWS. THERE ARE OTHER POSTS ON NIAS SO YOU MIGHT TAKE A LOOK MY EXAMPLE OF A BALATO IS LIKE YOURS CARVED WOOD TEETH ON THE FETISH BALL BUT THE SWORD WOULD SERVE VERY WELL AS A WEAPON. THE MAGIC PROBABLY DOSEN'T WORK VERY WELL WITH AN EMPTY FETISH BALL WITH WOODEN TEETH Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 24th January 2011 at 08:29 AM.

25th February 2011, 02:41 AM	#12
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	CLOSEUP OF FETISH BALL NIAS PIG TUSKS Attached Images

21st January 2011, 09:32 AM	#2
Nagawarrior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Inland Empire, Southern California USA Posts: 160	I like henri. As I understand it, most of these are recent. The old ones from the Headhunting times(pre-1887) are very rare indeed. Some concider the old ones the only "real" swords, all other are tourist. Do a forum search and see what I mean, not a pretty picture in some cases. Mine is my Wife's favorite sword in my collection, whether its old or not, its pretty. Its all in the eye of the beholder.

21st January 2011, 12:58 PM	#3
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Hello Henri, Although the ball has wooden teeth the whole ensemble looks original and the patina does not look fake to me. So this may be a post WW2 example for ceremonial use For the right price I would not mind to bump into one of these. Sad enough to often such items are presented as antique at a too high price.

23rd January 2011, 07:01 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Thank you. Did not realize they were wooden.

23rd January 2011, 10:50 PM	#9
henri Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 81	Thank you all for your feed backs . Still this dilemma : change / alter or not change the ball ? I could easily find here boar tusks and replace just the wooden tusks . Will look better for sure ...but still not an old one . Anyway it s always a compromise ! Cheers Henri

25th February 2011, 05:31 AM	#13
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	wonderful pics. thanks all for sharing!

25th February 2011, 08:23 AM	#15
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	NOPE! NO MONEY SPENT JUST CAPTURED THE PICTURE TO SHOW HOW ITS DONE. THE SWORD I HAVE IS EVEN WORSE IT HAS CARVED WOODEN TEETH BUT THE PRICE WAS RIGHT AND IT WAS BETTER THAN NOTHING.