Kris/Keris Purva Carita ?

Boswego · 8th February 2005, 10:38 PM

Good Morning-I just came across an article stating that the Kris Purva Carita-Java (2nd-3rd Century) is theorized to be the original form of this weapon-is this true ? Can anybody post any pics/drawings of one of these and supply more origin theories ? Thanks very much.

Rick · 9th February 2005, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boswego

Good Morning-I just came across an article stating that the Kris Purva Carita-Java (2nd-3rd Century) is theorized to be the original form of this weapon-is this true ? Can anybody post any pics/drawings of one of these and supply more origin theories ? Thanks very much.

Was it this article ?
http://www.nikhef.nl/~tonvr/keris/ke...s_se_asia.html

Boswego · 9th February 2005, 12:59 AM

Rick-I think that was the article.By the way,I oiled My Kris with a little virgin olive oil and it darkened the steel a bit-kind of a nice look (less shiny).Tracing Keris back to the 2nd-3rd century would be a bit of a stretch ?

Rick · 9th February 2005, 01:55 AM

I like to use Sandalwood oil for my keris , a little goes a long way .
Smells very nice too !

I am ignorant of any hard evidence to trace the form back to the 2nd century .
I'm definitely not the one to ask .

MABAGANI · 9th February 2005, 01:58 AM

Is it really a stretch considering the Greco-Romans had flame daggers, blades with waves? In the earliest Hindu-Buddhist sculptures you find the enlightened one draped in Greco style clothe. These same traces, Greco/Hindu/Buddhist are found in the martial arts so why not the blade? Makes me wonder how much cross cultural exchange is going on and how far back, IMHO...
If we're using "proper" citations sentence 1. As scene in sketches of warriors in the book "The Art and History of Personal Combat" (my books are in storage and I don't recall author and year at the moment). 2. Asian Art Museum, SF, CA as revealed by resident curator. MHO side note: the Buddha was a royal who had foresaken the material world in search of enlightenment. As a royal he would have been learned in outside cultures as evidenced in the sculptures. 3.MHO recalling the history of martial arts as it travels spreads through Buddhist teachings from India to the Far East, search Bodhidharma.

nechesh · 10th February 2005, 07:44 PM

Mabagani, this is not to discount anything else you stated in your post, but, as i am sure you know, "flame daggers, blades with waves" are NOT the identifying element of the keris or kris. The oldest known keris are not, infact, luk blades at all, so the fact that Greco-Roman culture used them does not necessarily imply any real link to the development of the keris
Is it possible? Yes, of course. But IMO, yes a stretch.

MABAGANI · 10th February 2005, 08:57 PM

Nechesh, yeah probably a stretch considering the early keris were straight forms, just wondering what it would look like if I cited sources as I thought out loud...what are the odds vs. aliens? jk

nechesh · 11th February 2005, 06:39 AM

Well, i think you already know what i think about those alien theories.

Battara · 12th February 2005, 12:23 AM

You know, I once found a keris out in Roswell New Mexico.

Talk about keris flying out of their scabbards!

).

8th February 2005, 10:38 PM	#1
Boswego Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 23	Kris/Keris Purva Carita ? Good Morning-I just came across an article stating that the Kris Purva Carita-Java (2nd-3rd Century) is theorized to be the original form of this weapon-is this true ? Can anybody post any pics/drawings of one of these and supply more origin theories ? Thanks very much.

9th February 2005, 12:59 AM	#3
Boswego Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 23	Rick-i think thats the article... Rick-I think that was the article.By the way,I oiled My Kris with a little virgin olive oil and it darkened the steel a bit-kind of a nice look (less shiny).Tracing Keris back to the 2nd-3rd century would be a bit of a stretch ?

9th February 2005, 01:58 AM	#5
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	Is it really a stretch considering the Greco-Romans had flame daggers, blades with waves? In the earliest Hindu-Buddhist sculptures you find the enlightened one draped in Greco style clothe. These same traces, Greco/Hindu/Buddhist are found in the martial arts so why not the blade? Makes me wonder how much cross cultural exchange is going on and how far back, IMHO... If we're using "proper" citations sentence 1. As scene in sketches of warriors in the book "The Art and History of Personal Combat" (my books are in storage and I don't recall author and year at the moment). 2. Asian Art Museum, SF, CA as revealed by resident curator. MHO side note: the Buddha was a royal who had foresaken the material world in search of enlightenment. As a royal he would have been learned in outside cultures as evidenced in the sculptures. 3.MHO recalling the history of martial arts as it travels spreads through Buddhist teachings from India to the Far East, search Bodhidharma. Last edited by MABAGANI; 9th February 2005 at 05:09 AM.

9th February 2005, 01:55 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I like to use Sandalwood oil for my keris , a little goes a long way . Smells very nice too ! I am ignorant of any hard evidence to trace the form back to the 2nd century . I'm definitely not the one to ask .

10th February 2005, 07:44 PM	#6
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Mabagani, this is not to discount anything else you stated in your post, but, as i am sure you know, "flame daggers, blades with waves" are NOT the identifying element of the keris or kris. The oldest known keris are not, infact, luk blades at all, so the fact that Greco-Roman culture used them does not necessarily imply any real link to the development of the keris Is it possible? Yes, of course. But IMO, yes a stretch.

10th February 2005, 08:57 PM	#7
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	Nechesh, yeah probably a stretch considering the early keris were straight forms, just wondering what it would look like if I cited sources as I thought out loud...what are the odds vs. aliens? jk

11th February 2005, 06:39 AM	#8
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Well, i think you already know what i think about those alien theories.

12th February 2005, 12:23 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	You know, I once found a keris out in Roswell New Mexico. Talk about keris flying out of their scabbards! ).