Yatagan Sword Shopping

[Yatagan440]

Hi Everyone

I am new to the forum but am impressed by the overall friendliness and helpfulness on the boards. My question is: I am looking for Montenegrin Yatagans (Yataghans) but do not have any idea where to start looking. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I have looked online with no success so far. Maybe im not looking in the right places?

Thanks

[kronckew]

they do occasionally turn up, but are rare.

this is a basic balkan karakulak yataghan which i found on ebay by accident a couple years ago. came from an ebay dealer in varna. haven't seen any since, tho more ornate turkish ones appear on occasion. on ebay, caveat emptor.

this is a good site to check here in the swap section (mine not for sale at the moment)

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gladius/yat1.jpg
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gladius/yat2.jpg

[Bill M]

I have no commercial interest in either of these dealers, but have bought from both and find them to be exceptional in terms of quality, honesty, freindly communication and depth of knowledge.

I can recommend them with no reservations. If you don't see something on their sites, email them and tell them what you want. They also have extensive knowledge of yataghans.

Artzi Yoram at
artzi@oriental-arms.com
http://www.oriental-arms.com/index.php

and
Charles Sanders
kaiserchuck@prodigy.net

[Yatagan440]

Thanks for the replies. Ill check those places out and hopefully get lucky.

Btw...nice blade kronckew. Any more up close pictures on the sword?

Also, Bill Marsh, you mentioned Charles Sanders as a dealer but does he have a website? (URL)..thanks!

[Bill M]

Also try Fred Coluzzi

Coluzzi113@aol.com
http://www.fredericksantiqueswords.com/

Fred's having a good sale right now. If you see something you like, move quickly!

Originally Posted by Yatagan440

Also, Bill Marsh, you mentioned Charles Sanders as a dealer but does he have a website? (URL)..thanks!

Unfortunately, he does not have a website, but he may have a few yatagans lying around. Charles is active on eBay, but not posting anything right now. Keep looking here.

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQ...3aMEFSQ3aMESOI

And I also recommend Stefan, another highly honorable dealer.

http://www.ashokaarts.com/

[Yatagan440]

Thanks again!

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Yatagan440

...Btw...nice blade kronckew. Any more up close pictures on the sword?...

hi yataghan440;

your wish is my command, effendi

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gladius/yat1.jpg
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gladius/yat2.jpg
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gladius/yat5.jpg
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gladius/yat6.jpg
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gladius/yat7.jpg

the scabbard is not original of course
the grip has had a couple of worm holes repaired by injection of a matching color resin
the blade appears to have been 'cleaned' with a grinder by some caring
previous owner, but there appears to be some signs that the blade is laminated
from a number of parallel rods forged together. i have not touched the blade
other than to remove all active rust and to oil it. no markings survived the
'cleaning' with the grinder, durn it.

[Yatagan440]

Thanks for sharing!

[Valjhun]

Nice early Yat, Kronckew,

BUT, it is far from beeing a true Montenegro weapon.

Montenegrins in the 19th century used yatagans from the typical Sarajevo form: white, big eared hilt with full of jewels. And another type, known as Serbian (i would say Ortodox), with silver filigran hilts with big square ears, also very adorned. No matter what, the western balcans used big eared yatagans and if they got one from the turks they would rehilte it. A Karakulak is composite word from Kulah=skull and Kara=Black (archaic) and it is a synonym for a yatagan as in the 18th and 19th century the most common material for hilts was black horn.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Valjhun

Nice early Yat, Kronckew,

BUT, it is far from beeing a true Montenegro weapon.

Montenegrins in the 19th century used yatagans from the typical Sarajevo form: white, big eared hilt with full of jewels. And another type, known as Serbian (i would say Ortodox), with silver filigran hilts with big square ears, also very adorned. No matter what, the western balcans used big eared yatagans and if they got one from the turks they would rehilte it. A Karakulak is composite word from Kulah=skull and Kara=Black (archaic) and it is a synonym for a yatagan as in the 18th and 19th century the most common material for hilts was black horn.

thanks for the additional info, as noted it actually came from varna in bulgaria, which as you know is on the eastern side of the balkan peninsula rather than the western side where montenegro is, and i gather far enough apart to be culturally different and i presented it more of as an example of what could be found on ebay with perseverance and after filtering out the other junk rather than as montenegran. interesting it being referred to as an 'early yat' - any idea as to how early, a rough date would be useful as the supplier didn't have any idea & neither do i. (it's one of my favorites & feels really good in the hand like a true weapon rather than a decorator)

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Valjhun

Nice early Yat, Kronckew,

BUT, it is far from beeing a true Montenegro weapon.

Montenegrins in the 19th century used yatagans from the typical Sarajevo form: white, big eared hilt with full of jewels. And another type, known as Serbian (i would say Ortodox), with silver filigran hilts with big square ears, also very adorned. No matter what, the western balcans used big eared yatagans and if they got one from the turks they would rehilte it. A Karakulak is composite word from Kulah=skull and Kara=Black (archaic) and it is a synonym for a yatagan as in the 18th and 19th century the most common material for hilts was black horn.

Valjhun, I do not speak Turkish, but I am pretty sure "kulak" means ears, and karakulak means simply black years, referring to the form and color of the hilt. Similarly eşekkulak, or doney ears signifies a hilt form, in which the "ears" of the hilt are square instead of round. It would be interesting if this particular form is typical of Serbia, but it makes a lot of sense to be characteristic of Serbia and Greece as there is a huge amount of silver involved with such specimens, and only in an independent country would Christians be able to wear it (and I do not think there is any doubt that silver encased yatagans were meant to be worn, desptie being functional weapons).
As for the Eastern Balkans, ivory hilts were still more popular, but not everyone could afford them, and Christians generally tried to not attract too much attention, especially by displaying expensive and well adorned weapons. Those who did possess yatagans, were usually out of the law anyway - either haiduts or revolutionaries, as Christians were not allowed to carry arms.
Kronckew, your yataghan appears to be of a more simplified type, and I personally do not think it is an early type. To me it appears to date back to the 19th century. Shepherds and other Christians in remote mountain areas needed some form of protection, and they adopted simplified versions of the yatagan that can vary in size and form. Almost all of these had hilts of horn, and hence became known among common folk as "karakulaks". Yours belonged to someone, who was more concerned about functionality rather than appearance, and thus fits the bill. A nice yatagan, congratulations - it may have served a haidut or a revolutionary, which in my eyes as a Bulgarian makes it quite interesting and valuable. I would not place much importance on the fact that the eBay seller you bought it from is from Varna - Miro Bakardjiev is a relatively big dealer (or at least was before the postal ban) of antique edged weapons and he tends to gather them from all over Bulgaria. Pinpointing a geographic area is impossible, but the Balkan mountain is your best guess.
I appologize for this diversion from the topic. Shopping for yatagans can be hard, as they are much sought after and therefor expensive. Since a good example will cost a lot (and they are now non-existant or exorbitantly priced in Bulgaria, and exportation from Bulgaria and Turkey is prohibited), the dealers mentioned towards the top of the thread are perhaps the ebst way to go - you are going to end up spending a large amount of money, so better get it from a reliable seller.
Regards,
Teodor

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by TVV

...I would not place much importance on the fact that the eBay seller you bought it from is from Varna - Miro Bakardjiev is a relatively big dealer (or at least was before the postal ban) of antique edged weapons and he tends to gather them from all over Bulgaria. Pinpointing a geographic area is impossible, but the Balkan mountain is your best guess.
...

thank you for the information which has been very informative, i've filed a copy away to keep it safe. it did indeed come from miro in the summer of 2005, i guess before the postal ban, fortuna dictated that the yataghan come live with me as i was able to win the auction at a very low price.

[Yatagan440]

Wow...lots of great information. Thanks TVV.

I have one question though. You mentioned: "Christians were not allowed to carry arms". But Montenegro is the only known country that has ever required every able male in their country to carry a revolver. I am not sure about yataghans but given that I would think swords would be permitted if guns were.

Attached is an interesting document for those interested in some Montenegrin Revolver history.

I find all this knowledge of yatagans from the Montenegrin/Balkan area interesting. If their is any other information I would be highly interested in reading it.

I purchased a book on ebay about Yatagans but I havent had much time to read it: HERE

And heres the article:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...x759885640.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...x759884656.jpg

[TVV]

Well, Montenegro was not part of the Ottoman Empire. On the contrary, in its fascinating history, this kingdom managed to maintain its freedom against the Ottoman Empire, serving as an inspiration to all the Christians in the rest of the Balkans. The constant threat the Ottomans posed made it necessary for every man in Montenegro to be well armed and prepared to perform military duty, thus King Nikola's decree. In contrast, Christians under the Ottomans were not allowed to carry any arms, as rebellions were a constant threat to the dying Empire.
Regards,
Teodor