A German halberd for coments

fernando · 19th January 2009, 07:14 PM

Just bought this piece; i hope i have done it right

A German halberd said to be from the XVI century; would it be plausible?
I wonder what the mark on the beak represents ... the blade smith?

. I love marks in weapons; i am dying to know what this one is about ... if ever possible.
Shaft looking the original one; of initial square section, becoming octogonal for its most part. It is covered in more than one half with textile material that used to be pinkish or old rose (velvet?), with fringes in both ends, looking different from each other; the bottom one woven with golden filaments.
Length of (diamond section) spike: 65 cms.;102 cms. between the tip and the end of the side straps.
Perforated blade 16 cms wide.
Total length 2,73 Mts.
Coments will be so much welcome.
Fernando

.

Matchlock · 20th January 2009, 06:51 PM

Hi Fernando,

Congratulations - what a fine halberd retaining its original haft plus - astounding enough - its original textile haft decoration and raw silk tassels!

It is this way of textile haft decoration - btw., you are absolutely right: it is pinkish/rosy read velvet, most of its surface of course rubbed now; its color may have been sort of purple originally - that reflects the North Italian taste.

The blade, beak and spike are not characteristic Italian though, they look Styrian to me. On Italian halberds they usually tend to look comparatively delicate and kind of playful rather than apt for fighting as in your sample. Also the slaggy iron looks all Styrian to me.

Oh yeah, the mark. We all love marks. All I can say is that it is no doubt a workshop/maker's mark, though. It does not seem to be recorded but telling from its general shape and pattern, its style is still influenced by the Late Gothic tradition, a fact also drawing my thoughts to the traditionally minded Styria.

You most probably acquired a Styrian halberd iron that was hafted and decorated in the Italian manner. The overall length of 2.73 meters is absolutely characteristic of such a pieces of that time period.

I attach images of other typical contemporary Styrian halberds thousands of which are preserved at the Graz Armoury, and of the characteristic textile decoration on North Italian pieces.

All in all a very attractive piece. Would you perhaps consider applying some oilve oil to the iron? It looks so barren dry to me ... Olive oil was used on iron parts in European armories thru the centuries; after about three to four weeks, when it has dried it turns into a very stable yellowish patina supplying a perfect surface protection. I have been employing olive oil on iron parts for thirty years.

The picture of the Italian spontoons also shows the textile haft coverings and may be a reference for your partizan/spontoon.

Again, very well done, Fernando! Enjoy your new acquisitions!

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 20th January 2009, 07:20 PM

Interesting enough, the basal reinforcement is off line/out of direction with the spike - a feature normally not found with German and Swiss halberds after the 1520's.

Following actually the archaic asymmetric Late Gothic pattern, it is quite common with Styrian and North Italian halberds of the second half to late 16th century though.

This being in line with the traditional Late Gothic form of the mark adds a further back up to my opinion that you have a Styrian (Austrian) halberd.

m

katana · 20th January 2009, 08:33 PM

Hi Fernando,
congrats

a very nice addition to your collection.

Great info Matchlock, thanks.....although this picture looks more like an 'obstacle' Indiana Jones would have to run through

Kind Regards David

fernando · 20th January 2009, 10:48 PM

Hi Michael,
Thank you very much indeed, for your compliments and fantastic info

.
I bow before your knowledge; you sure have an imense lot of 'luggage' in this area.
Let me go and digest all the coments presented, though for a first reaction i am very happy with all you said about this piece.
Thanks and thanks again.
Fernando

fernando · 20th January 2009, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

... congrats

a very nice addition to your collection.
Great info Matchlock, thanks.....although this picture looks more like an 'obstacle' Indiana Jones would have to run through

Thanks for the apreciation, Katana Jones ... i mean, David

Matchlock · 21st January 2009, 03:09 PM

Hi, David alias Katana Jones,

The treasure Indiana Jones is headed for would have to be the far away suit of 16th c. half armor then seen in the back against the light ...

Michael

fernando · 21st January 2009, 11:52 PM

Hi Michael,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

... Would you perhaps consider applying some oilve oil to the iron? It looks so barren dry to me ... Olive oil was used on iron parts in European armories thru the centuries; after about three to four weeks, when it has dried it turns into a very stable yellowish patina supplying a perfect surface protection. I have been employing olive oil on iron parts for thirty years.

...

Done ... in both Halberd and Partisan.
Olive oil would never occur to me ... although it abunds in Portuguese houses. I used to oil blades with sewing machine oil; would that be wrong?
Fernando

Matchlock · 22nd January 2009, 01:41 PM

Hi, Fernando,

No oil is wrong. Olive oil which is no doubt abundant in Portugal is just the historic treatment. It dries within a few weeks and will stay there.

m

fernando · 22nd January 2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

... No oil is wrong. Olive oil which is no doubt abundant in Portugal is just the historic treatment. It dries within a few weeks and will stay there ...

Danksche

.

Anandalal N. · 22nd January 2009, 01:52 PM

Hi Michael,

In the Partisan type arms you posted the one on the far right has a cross bar below the blade. One opinion was that this was for the purpose of winding the matchcord for the firing of cannon. After seeing your images I can see that this is not possible with silk tassels so close to it. Any idea of the purpose?

By the way Fernando you are on a roll. I love the stuff you have been posting.

Matchlock · 22nd January 2009, 02:30 PM

Hi Anandalal,

I should refer to that transverse bar just as a sort of stylized quillons which, in earlier and fighting or hunting pole arms, were meant to ward off an enemy's or animal's body and stop it from sliding sort of on to the haft.

Had they been matchholders they would have been shaped somewhat like the serpentines on muskets, with a wing nut for tightening the two halves. This would, as you remarked, not be possible that close to the tassels though.

Michael

19th January 2009, 07:14 PM	#1
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,645	A German halberd for coments Just bought this piece; i hope i have done it right A German halberd said to be from the XVI century; would it be plausible? I wonder what the mark on the beak represents ... the blade smith? . I love marks in weapons; i am dying to know what this one is about ... if ever possible. Shaft looking the original one; of initial square section, becoming octogonal for its most part. It is covered in more than one half with textile material that used to be pinkish or old rose (velvet?), with fringes in both ends, looking different from each other; the bottom one woven with golden filaments. Length of (diamond section) spike: 65 cms.;102 cms. between the tip and the end of the side straps. Perforated blade 16 cms wide. Total length 2,73 Mts. Coments will be so much welcome. Fernando . Attached Images

20th January 2009, 06:51 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A fine Styrian/Austrian halberd hafted in the North Italian taste, ca. 1580 Hi Fernando, Congratulations - what a fine halberd retaining its original haft plus - astounding enough - its original textile haft decoration and raw silk tassels! It is this way of textile haft decoration - btw., you are absolutely right: it is pinkish/rosy read velvet, most of its surface of course rubbed now; its color may have been sort of purple originally - that reflects the North Italian taste. The blade, beak and spike are not characteristic Italian though, they look Styrian to me. On Italian halberds they usually tend to look comparatively delicate and kind of playful rather than apt for fighting as in your sample. Also the slaggy iron looks all Styrian to me. Oh yeah, the mark. We all love marks. All I can say is that it is no doubt a workshop/maker's mark, though. It does not seem to be recorded but telling from its general shape and pattern, its style is still influenced by the Late Gothic tradition, a fact also drawing my thoughts to the traditionally minded Styria. You most probably acquired a Styrian halberd iron that was hafted and decorated in the Italian manner. The overall length of 2.73 meters is absolutely characteristic of such a pieces of that time period. I attach images of other typical contemporary Styrian halberds thousands of which are preserved at the Graz Armoury, and of the characteristic textile decoration on North Italian pieces. All in all a very attractive piece. Would you perhaps consider applying some oilve oil to the iron? It looks so barren dry to me ... Olive oil was used on iron parts in European armories thru the centuries; after about three to four weeks, when it has dried it turns into a very stable yellowish patina supplying a perfect surface protection. I have been employing olive oil on iron parts for thirty years. The picture of the Italian spontoons also shows the textile haft coverings and may be a reference for your partizan/spontoon. Again, very well done, Fernando! Enjoy your new acquisitions! Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 20th January 2009 at 08:46 PM.

20th January 2009, 08:33 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Fernando, congrats a very nice addition to your collection. Great info Matchlock, thanks.....although this picture looks more like an 'obstacle' Indiana Jones would have to run through Kind Regards David Attached Images

20th January 2009, 07:20 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Interesting enough, the basal reinforcement is off line/out of direction with the spike - a feature normally not found with German and Swiss halberds after the 1520's. Following actually the archaic asymmetric Late Gothic pattern, it is quite common with Styrian and North Italian halberds of the second half to late 16th century though. This being in line with the traditional Late Gothic form of the mark adds a further back up to my opinion that you have a Styrian (Austrian) halberd. m

20th January 2009, 10:48 PM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,645	Hi Michael, Thank you very much indeed, for your compliments and fantastic info . I bow before your knowledge; you sure have an imense lot of 'luggage' in this area. Let me go and digest all the coments presented, though for a first reaction i am very happy with all you said about this piece. Thanks and thanks again. Fernando

21st January 2009, 03:09 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi, David alias Katana Jones, The treasure Indiana Jones is headed for would have to be the far away suit of 16th c. half armor then seen in the back against the light ... Michael

22nd January 2009, 01:41 PM	#9
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi, Fernando, No oil is wrong. Olive oil which is no doubt abundant in Portugal is just the historic treatment. It dries within a few weeks and will stay there. m

22nd January 2009, 01:52 PM	#11
Anandalal N. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 84	Hi Michael, In the Partisan type arms you posted the one on the far right has a cross bar below the blade. One opinion was that this was for the purpose of winding the matchcord for the firing of cannon. After seeing your images I can see that this is not possible with silk tassels so close to it. Any idea of the purpose? By the way Fernando you are on a roll. I love the stuff you have been posting.

22nd January 2009, 02:30 PM	#12
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Anandalal, I should refer to that transverse bar just as a sort of stylized quillons which, in earlier and fighting or hunting pole arms, were meant to ward off an enemy's or animal's body and stop it from sliding sort of on to the haft. Had they been matchholders they would have been shaped somewhat like the serpentines on muskets, with a wing nut for tightening the two halves. This would, as you remarked, not be possible that close to the tassels though. Michael