Luzon Batangas bolo?

Sajen · 24th February 2012, 11:20 PM

Just bought this bolo and after some research I found this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=bolo
Could it be that my one is as well a Luzon Batangas bolo and maybe a Katipunan area sword?

Regards,

Detlef

Lew · 25th February 2012, 03:58 AM

Central Luzon I think? It's some type of itak bolo. Batangas bolos do not have peened through tangs? It's old probably pre WW2. Nice find there

there are some Visayan traits carved in the hilt though so this is a hard one to pin down

.

Battara · 25th February 2012, 04:20 AM

The blade kind of looks Tagalog.

Indianajones · 25th February 2012, 11:57 AM

Hi Detlef, congratulations with this sword firstly!! To my opinion this sword is from North Luzon from Ilocano's, deriving from the shape of the handle (seen in neighbourhood of Vigan). This type would have been carried in a leather sheath by 'lowlander officers' (characterised by wearing a uniform and an oval high pithhelmet) but they were traded around. 'Katipunan' -if you didnt know already

- actually means the resistance against the Spanish and is mostly symbolised by a closed fist. I do estimate this sword from being 1850's so from that era, but therefore not specifically as a 'katipunan'example. (tagalog=lowlander=ilocano)

Though I could be (proven) off with my origin as due to trade and this is not my exact field of expertise. Anyone?

Greetings

Sajen · 25th February 2012, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lew

Central Luzon I think? It's some type of itak bolo. Batangas bolos do not have peened through tangs? It's old probably pre WW2. Nice find there

there are some Visayan traits carved in the hilt though so this is a hard one to pin down

.

Thank you Lew. I am not very firm with the swords from this region and all I know is taken from this place.

I have seen a lot of similarity with the bolo from Robert, the carvings at the handle and as well with the blade. There is a sword on Eriks site (actually for selling, so no pictures) with a peened through tang which one he titled as Batangas sword.

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 25th February 2012, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

The blade kind of looks Tagalog.

Hello Jose, isn't Batangas not the center of Tagalog? Do you have a guess about the age of this sword?

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 25th February 2012, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indianajones

Hi Detlef, congratulations with this sword firstly!! To my opinion this sword is from North Luzon from Ilocano's, deriving from the shape of the handle (seen in neighbourhood of Vigan). This type would have been carried in a leather sheath by 'lowlander officers' (characterised by wearing a uniform and an oval high pithhelmet) but they were traded around. 'Katipunan' -if you didnt know already

- actually means the resistance against the Spanish and is mostly symbolised by a closed fist. I do estimate this sword from being 1850's so from that era, but therefore not specifically as a 'katipunan'example. (tagalog=lowlander=ilocano)

Though I could be (proven) off with my origin as due to trade and this is not my exact field of expertise. Anyone?

Greetings

Hi Wouter, thank you. Yes, I know what "Katipunan" is/mean and know also that many swords and daggers from this time have a handle which shows a closed fist but not all when I have a look to old threads here.
But I really would like to pin down the origin of my bolo as well an estimated age. So I am very curious what others like Lorenz think about it and can tell me.

Regards,

Detlef

Lew · 25th February 2012, 02:33 PM

Hi Detlef

Basically it's an itak Tagalog which was a chopper that was used on the farm for various cutting chores. It later used as a fighting bolo during the revolt against the Spanish. As for it's age IMO anywhere from the 1860s-1890s sorry but there really is no sure way to pin down its exact age since this style of bolo was widely used in that area of the Philippines over many years. All I can say is you have a great piece history there

Sajen · 25th February 2012, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lew

Hi Detlef

Basically it's an itak Tagalog which was a chopper that was used on the farm for various cutting chores. It later used as a fighting bolo during the revolt against the Spanish.

Hi Lew,

thank you for the further information!

So you think it's old like this?

Lew · 25th February 2012, 02:56 PM

Yes pre 1900

Sajen · 25th February 2012, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lew

Yes pre 1900

Thank's again, that's what i hoped!

xasterix · 13th May 2020, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Just bought this bolo and after some research I found this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=bolo
Could it be that my one is as well a Luzon Batangas bolo and maybe a Katipunan area sword?

Regards,

Detlef

Hi Detlef. This sword is from Cavite based on its hilt. That's Cavite's signature hilt. I don't know the name of the blade profile though.

Sajen · 13th May 2020, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

Hi Detlef. This sword is from Cavite based on its hilt. That's Cavite's signature hilt. I don't know the name of the blade profile though.

Hi Xas,

Thank you very much! Great to know that this hilt style is Cavite!

Just for the sake of my understanding, when I understand you correct is the sword in up from the one in question also fitted with a Cavite style handle?

Thank you again and my best regards,
Detlef

xasterix · 13th May 2020, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Xas,

Thank you very much! Great to know that this hilt style is Cavite!

Just for the sake of my understanding, when I understand you correct is the sword in up from the one in question also fitted with a Cavite style handle?

Thank you again and my best regards,
Detlef

Yes, also Cavite. But I believe the albino horn (just a guess, I'm not a good identifier of hilt material) is older. The top sword is interesting ; may I see its scabbard?

Sajen · 13th May 2020, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

Yes, also Cavite. But I believe the albino horn (just a guess, I'm not a good identifier of hilt material) is older. The top sword is interesting ; may I see its scabbard?

First of all, thank you for a great information!

The handle material by the one which started this thread I would describe as green horn. The spine is near the handle 8,4 mm thick and has an interesting marking there, see picture.
The upper one in the last two pictures has a handle from kamagong, ferrule is iron, like by the other one, spine thickness near the handle is 12,3 mm (!).

Sadly are both without scabbard. Would you call the blade shape by the upper one dinahong palay?

Best,
Detlef

xasterix · 14th May 2020, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

First of all, thank you for a great information!

The handle material by the one which started this thread I would describe as green horn. The spine is near the handle 8,4 mm thick and has an interesting marking there, see picture.
The upper one in the last two pictures has a handle from kamagong, ferrule is iron, like by the other one, spine thickness near the handle is 12,3 mm (!).

Sadly are both without scabbard. Would you call the blade shape by the upper one dinahong palay?

Best,
Detlef

No problem on the lack of scabbard. I would think the blade profile is closer to what is called as "dinahong buho" or "dahong buo" by the Tagalog-speaking towns. Here's a modern sample from one of those towns. The blade tip terminates either at center, or at the upper part.

xasterix · 16th April 2023, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Xas,

Thank you very much! Great to know that this hilt style is Cavite!

Just for the sake of my understanding, when I understand you correct is the sword in up from the one in question also fitted with a Cavite style handle?

Thank you again and my best regards,
Detlef

Hi Detlef. Necro'ing this because I felt the need to correct my past self lol.

Regarding your four swords, from top to bottom, I would now classify these as:

Laguna uhas tari
Quezon dahong palay
Batangas or Cavite dahong bolo
Pampanga tulipas

Hope this helps!

Sajen · 16th April 2023, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

Hi Detlef. Necro'ing this because I felt the need to correct my past self lol.

Regarding your four swords, from top to bottom, I would now classify these as:

Laguna uhas tari
Quezon dahong palay
Batangas or Cavite dahong bolo
Pampanga tulipas

Hope this helps!

Hi Xas,

Great information!

Thank you very much.

You are a real asset to the forum!

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 16th April 2023, 04:59 PM

There is another sword in this group, would you be so kind to classify this one as well?

Regards,
Detlef

chmorshuutz · 17th April 2023, 04:34 PM

In present-day nomenclature, the uppermost two would be called "sinungot ulang" (lobster snout) or "sinungot hipon" (shrimp snout). The third and fourth one would be "dahong palay". The one at the bottom seems to be "buntot palos" (eel's tail).

xasterix · 17th April 2023, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

There is another sword in this group, would you be so kind to classify this one as well?

Regards,
Detlef

Halloo Detlef, that's a pretty curious bolo @.@ may I request more pics of it, thanks!

Sajen · 17th April 2023, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

Halloo Detlef, that's a pretty curious bolo @.@ may I request more pics of it, thanks!

Here you go! When you need more pictures please let me know.

61,5 cm overall, blade 44 cm, 7 mm thick at the spine direct after the handle.

Sajen · 17th April 2023, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chmorshuutz

In present-day nomenclature, the uppermost two would be called "sinungot ulang" (lobster snout) or "sinungot hipon" (shrimp snout). The third and fourth one would be "dahong palay". The one at the bottom seems to be "buntot palos" (eel's tail).

Thank you!

xasterix · 18th April 2023, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Here you go! When you need more pictures please let me know.

61,5 cm overall, blade 44 cm, 7 mm thick at the spine direct after the handle.

Thanks for the pictures! I would assess this to be from Quezon as well based on the hilt. Although...the blade profile features, I commonly see that associated with Rizal area. So it's either a whole Quezon piece, or a combo build between two Tagalog areas.

Sajen · 18th April 2023, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

Thanks for the pictures! I would assess this to be from Quezon as well based on the hilt. Although...the blade profile features, I commonly see that associated with Rizal area. So it's either a whole Quezon piece, or a combo build between two Tagalog areas.

Thank you very much mate!

Sajen · 27th April 2023, 12:37 PM

Forgot to ask, is there a special meaning for the Aries handle?

Regards,
Detlef

xasterix · 27th April 2023, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Forot to ask, is there a special meaning for the Aries handle?

Regards,
Detlef

Not sure TBH. The area produced a wide assortment of animal pommels. BTW, what's the edge grind?

Sajen · 27th April 2023, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

BTW, what's the edge grind?

Thank you anyway! V-grind.

Regards,
Detlef

24th February 2012, 11:20 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Luzon Batangas bolo? Just bought this bolo and after some research I found this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=bolo Could it be that my one is as well a Luzon Batangas bolo and maybe a Katipunan area sword? Regards, Detlef Attached Images

25th February 2012, 02:33 PM	#8
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi Detlef Basically it's an itak Tagalog which was a chopper that was used on the farm for various cutting chores. It later used as a fighting bolo during the revolt against the Spanish. As for it's age IMO anywhere from the 1860s-1890s sorry but there really is no sure way to pin down its exact age since this style of bolo was widely used in that area of the Philippines over many years. All I can say is you have a great piece history there Last edited by Lew; 25th February 2012 at 02:55 PM.

16th April 2023, 04:59 PM	#19
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	There is another sword in this group, would you be so kind to classify this one as well? Regards, Detlef Attached Images

27th April 2023, 12:37 PM	#26
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Forgot to ask, is there a special meaning for the Aries handle? Regards, Detlef Last edited by Sajen; 27th April 2023 at 10:35 PM.

25th February 2012, 03:58 AM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Central Luzon I think? It's some type of itak bolo. Batangas bolos do not have peened through tangs? It's old probably pre WW2. Nice find there there are some Visayan traits carved in the hilt though so this is a hard one to pin down .

25th February 2012, 04:20 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	The blade kind of looks Tagalog.

25th February 2012, 11:57 AM	#4
Indianajones Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 180	Hi Detlef, congratulations with this sword firstly!! To my opinion this sword is from North Luzon from Ilocano's, deriving from the shape of the handle (seen in neighbourhood of Vigan). This type would have been carried in a leather sheath by 'lowlander officers' (characterised by wearing a uniform and an oval high pithhelmet) but they were traded around. 'Katipunan' -if you didnt know already - actually means the resistance against the Spanish and is mostly symbolised by a closed fist. I do estimate this sword from being 1850's so from that era, but therefore not specifically as a 'katipunan'example. (tagalog=lowlander=ilocano) Though I could be (proven) off with my origin as due to trade and this is not my exact field of expertise. Anyone? Greetings

25th February 2012, 02:56 PM	#10
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Yes pre 1900

17th April 2023, 04:34 PM	#20
chmorshuutz Member Join Date: Jul 2021 Posts: 54	In present-day nomenclature, the uppermost two would be called "sinungot ulang" (lobster snout) or "sinungot hipon" (shrimp snout). The third and fourth one would be "dahong palay". The one at the bottom seems to be "buntot palos" (eel's tail).