Rukai sword problem, need help please!

[Sajen]

Hello,

have recently acquired a Rukai sword. After the sword arrived at the destination was found that the handle isn't original to this blade and was attached to the tang only by a piece of carton which was wrapped around the tang and some wooden pieces which were driven into the hilt near the tang. After the hilt was removed from the blade was found a piece of a tang but this piece was never part of the original tang.
The tang is a little bit to short for this handle so the tang get extended. I know that by Paiwan and also by Rukai swords the tang went complete through the hilt but I never have seen a Rukai knife handle from up so I don't know if the tang is just folded in up like by the few Paiwan knives I've handled before or if the tang is peened in up. The handle has a butt cap in up. Since I want to have this piece of art proper restored I need one or maybe more pictures from a Rukai knife handle as topview to get this very niece knife accurately restored.
I would be more as thankful when members who own such a knife could post such a requested picture. Thank you very much in advance.

Here the seller pictures of this knife.

[Sajen]

Here some pictures of the problem which was found.

The first picture show the removed handle, the second the pieces which was found, the last the butt cap.

[Sajen]

And here the original tang with the other found tang piece.

[Ian]

Ouch ...

Detlef, it looks to me as though you may have a composite of several components, some of which may not be very old. The hilt and all of its stuffing (including the stray piece of iron) look to me that they did not come with the sword originally. It's hard to tell how well the blade fits the wooden sheath, which might indicate that it too is an unrelated marriage. And the blade itself looks rather thin for these knives.

These have now become very desirable and quite expensive, so much so that I imagine unscrupulous people would be quite happy to throw a few unrelated pieces together and try to pass it off as original. I hope that is not the case here, but you should be able to tell when you have it in hand.

Good luck!

Ian.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

Ouch ...

Detlef, it looks to me as though you may have a composite of several components, some of which may not be very old. The hilt and all of its stuffing (including the stray piece of iron) looks to me that they did not come with the sword originally. It's hard to tell how well the blade fits the wooden sheath, which might indicate that it too is an unrelated marriage. And the blade itself looks rather thin for these knives.

These have now become very desirable and quite expensive, so much so that I imagine unscrupulous people would be quite happy to through a few unrelated pieces together and try to pass it off as original. I hope that is not the case here, but you should be able to tell when you have it in hand.

Good luck!

Ian.

Hello Ian,

I am and also an other member are very sure that all components are old/antique. The blade fits the scabbard very well, at the one picture where it seems that the blade is to short for the scabbard the blade isn't pulled down until the end of the scabbard. The pictures are from the seller.
But you are correct that the seller through the handle and the rest together, so the only problem is that the handle isn't original to the blade including scabbard. Blade including scabbard are for sure Rukai as the handle also.
And I am very sure that the tang by Paiwan swords is folded in up from the handle but I don't know it exactly from Rukai swords, this is what I want to know.
At end of the restauration you will have an old Rukai sword, nobody would have known without this thread that handle and blade are not an old marriage.

Regards,
Detlef

[Rick]

Looks to me like you want to weld an extension onto the existing tang with mild steel, shape it to length and taper; re-insert and peen the new tang end over .

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Rick

Looks to me like you want to weld an extension onto the existing tang with mild steel, shape it to length and taper; re-insert and peen the new tang end over .

Hello Rick,

this is exactly the plan.

[David R]

Check whether the blade is wrought iron or a homogeneous steel, the fibrous wrought metal tends to break up when attempting a weld.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David R

Check whether the blade is wrought iron or a homogeneous steel, the fibrous wrought metal tends to break up when attempting a weld.

Thank you for the tip David, when the tang is original bent over it will hold and I am more as sure that the restorer know exactly what he is doing.

Regards,
Detlef

[Tim Simmons]

I would be inclined to cement the blade and top piece back in the handle with shellac or bees wax and resin mix. Then make some brass or copper pins to secure the top piece to the handle. I cannot see that the tang was pined over the handle end so it was probably originally cemented. It look right to me.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I would be inclined to cement the blade and top piece back in the handle with shellac or bees wax and resin mix. Then make some brass or copper pins to secure the top piece to the handle. I cannot see that the tang was pined over the handle end so it was probably originally cemented. It look right to me.

Hello Tim,

thank you for comment. The butt plate has a hole so it is very nearby that the tang went complete through and was either peened in up or folded like I know it from the Paiwan swords/knives. Of course will the blade extra be cement to the handle. I want to have it restored original as possible.

Regards,
Detlef

[varta]

I did not get why you said that the handle isn't original to the blade including scabbard?
They look quite good to me. Sure the seller was not correct even if one could suspect on 08/25 00:37 small alien pieces of wood ...

I never dismounted my swords; so I will not give you any good advice! (Paiwan and Rukaï are very similar and probably share the same mounting features)

[Tim Simmons]

Detlef,

I am puzzled by the photo of the tang and floating piece. They do not seem to belong to each other. The break surfaces do not match. What does the butt end of the handle look like?

[Sajen]

Varta and Tim,

that the original tang of the blade was to short for this handle and this other tang piece which was found inside the handle and never was part of the original tang let me think that this handle isn't original to this sword also when both are Rukai.

The knife is already restored, the tang get extended and folded in up from the handle like I know it from Paiwan knives and like Varta suggested also.

Here some pictures the very good restorer send to me. Pictures from the complete sword will follow.

Regards,
Detlef

[Tim Simmons]

Very nice!

[Sajen]

Thank you in the name of the restorer!

[Sajen]

Here better pictures of the restored knife.

[Sajen]

A last one.

[Ken Maddock]

Very nice metal work
Can you tell me if the restorer used gas, arc, tig or mig to do the welding
Personally I would use gas but that is only because I only have arc or gas welding
Thanks
Ken

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ken Maddock

Very nice metal work
Can you tell me if the restorer used gas, arc, tig or mig to do the welding
Personally I would use gas but that is only because I only have arc or gas welding
Thanks
Ken

Hello Ken,

frankly said I don't know it. But to my eyes it look like a gas weld. Maybe the restorer willing to comment.

Regards,
Detlef

[Robert]

Heat sink paste was applied above were the weld was to be made, then the tang was TIG welded and plunged into heated sand and allowed to cool slowly over a period of hours.

Best,
Robert

[Rick]

A great job bringing a very valuable cultural artifact back to life .
Way to go Gentleman .

[KuKulzA28]

Restoration well done. Beautiful blades, I'll have to look into them more next time I'm in Taiwan.. There's still some makers making them in the traditional aesthetic

[Ken Maddock]

Originally Posted by Robert

Heat sink paste was applied above were the weld was to be made, then the tang was TIG welded and plunged into heated sand and allowed to cool slowly over a period of hours.

Best,
Robert

Hi Robert
Thanks for the information
I assume tig and the heat sink paste and was used to minimise the heating to the tempered part if the blade and the warm sand to just help maintain the tempering also.
If undertaking such work again could you perhaps take a few pictures if time allows.
I successfully welded via arc an attachment onto a leaf spring which amazingly did not soften the spring too much, nice to see how others approach their projects
Again very nice work
Ken

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Robert

Heat sink paste was applied above were the weld was to be made, then the tang was TIG welded and plunged into heated sand and allowed to cool slowly over a period of hours.

Best,
Robert

Thank you very much Robert!

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Rick

A great job bringing a very valuable cultural artifact back to life .
Way to go Gentleman .

Thank you very much Rick! We are current owner of cultural artifacts and have responsibility to keep them in good order for coming genarations IMHO.

Regards,
Detlef