Looking for beginners guide to Keris

awdaniec666 · 27th September 2024, 08:56 PM

Hi!

Some of you may already noticed that there is a project called "The Gladiological" which I recently found - it´s an online magazine about swords from all over the world basically. We already have plenty of articles about European and Near Eastern swords, but looking at the masses of information in this specific subforum I cannot pass without asking if there is anybody here who would be keen to pass on his/her knowledge about Keris for people like me who are pretty much unfamiliar about this kind of sword in a "beginners guide" for the magazine.

If you are interested, please get in touch via our website (www.thegladiological.com) or private message here!

Patrick

A. G. Maisey · 28th September 2024, 12:22 AM

Patrick, I've had a look at this site, and I would appreciate your further comments.

It seems to me that the objective of this site is to provide a place for the online publication of writings --- ie, articles or whatever --- that deal with edged weaponry.

Am I correct or am I incorrect?

Perhaps the compilation of a directory of online sources of information related to edged weaponry might be a worthwhile project?

milandro · 28th September 2024, 08:53 AM

there are many books and there are many scholarly articles, but these days information on line is what works the best.

Personally I find that there have been, over the years, some sites from which I got much help and information.

One is certainly http://old.blades.free.fr, admittedly the navigation isn't very intuitive but once you get to explore this you will get a lot of information, please explore (as I said the exploration isn't as intuitive as it may be), there is a LOT there not only on krises but also other edged weapons from the area and way beyond

awdaniec666 · 29th September 2024, 11:10 AM

Hi A.G., Hi Milandro,

thank you for replying!

- The Site is mainly about edged weapons and I will implement noswonogus too (not swords and not guns, like axes and spears).
- A list of links is probably something for forums like this one. I made the Glad primarily because I love to write.
- I personally will not research Keris swords, and wonÂ’t write about them. I am looking for somebody who knows about the topic and likes to write something basic for readers with different interests than Keris.
- Thanks for the sources. I will check them.

Such articles are ideal for people who are just curious what a certain topic offers but do not intend to collect those swords and spend hours into research. ItÂ’s supposed to be an excourse, a glimpse over the edge. I was once asked if we pay our authors - the whole project is being resized in our free time and is not even non-profit, but non-financial, we practically loose money by making everything available for free and like to write and share knowledge. But we cannot cover every type of swords on earth with our small team. Maybe I wasnÂ’t clear enough

milandro · 30th September 2024, 08:53 AM

Cheers! If I were you I'd still give it a go and contact the person whom seems to be running that site

Dominique Buttin

dbuttin@hotmail.com

here his biography

http://old.blades.free.fr/utilities/biography.htm

David · 30th September 2024, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awdaniec666

Hi A.G., Hi Milandro,

thank you for replying!

- The Site is mainly about edged weapons and I will implement noswonogus too (not swords and not guns, like axes and spears).
- A list of links is probably something for forums like this one. I made the Glad primarily because I love to write.
- I personally will not research Keris swords, and wonÂ’t write about them. I am looking for somebody who knows about the topic and likes to write something basic for readers with different interests than Keris.
- Thanks for the sources. I will check them.

Such articles are ideal for people who are just curious what a certain topic offers but do not intend to collect those swords and spend hours into research. ItÂ’s supposed to be an excourse, a glimpse over the edge. I was once asked if we pay our authors - the whole project is being resized in our free time and is not even non-profit, but non-financial, we practically loose money by making everything available for free and like to write and share knowledge. But we cannot cover every type of swords on earth with our small team. Maybe I wasnÂ’t clear enough

I willl say this in regards to what you are looking for. For many years there has been quite a bit of questionable or even straight out false information circulated about keris, some online and some in books which were accepted collector guides for decades. Some incorrect informations seems to be constantly recirculated from older texts and dealers love to use unsubstantiated stories about keris to increase the intrigue surrounding the stock that they are selling. At the same time it should be understood that the keris is many things to many people and coming to concise conclusions on certain aspects of this cultural icon can be quite impossible at times. In this way it is quite unlike any other edged weapon i am aware of. So before you post an article on your site i would suggest that you vet it well in various forums to avoid adding to the noise of misinformation that has followed the study of keris for many years. It is a very complicated subject and difficult at best to sumarize in a short basic article. Best of luck to you!

A. G. Maisey · 30th September 2024, 11:39 PM

David, what you have written here is, I believe, very true. I think of the matter itself as being a bit of a Catch 22 situation:-

there is a tremendous quantity of information about keris (& other things) available on the net, but you need to already be an expert to be able to separate the gold from the clay.

If one were to put in 20 or 30 years or so of dedicated study & research from traditional sources and then to tackle the net & the hodge-podge of ignorance, misinformation & just plain lies that we find there, then that person might be able to have some sort of understanding of the subject.

If one is already educated in the subject of keris, then the net can become a very valuable resource, if one is still in kindergarten, well, I reckon one is likely to drown before graduation day.

That is where a Forum such a this one can really help, at its best this Forum can help clarify understandings and show a path forward for both the dedicated & casual student.

As for a simple primer on keris, I personally like David van Duuren's "The Kris", maybe somebody might like to compress this into a 5K word essay?

Then we have two really valuable printed books, bibliographies, one by Timothy Rogers, one by David van Duuren. They seldom get mentioned, but these two books are a truly invaluable resource for any serious student of the keris, or in Timothy's case, any serious student of the weaponry of the Malay World.

But to return to the subject of Patrick's invitation. I think that this new initiative that he has drawn our attention to could perhaps provide a place for publication of writings in the field, however, unless provision were to be made for review & commentary on those writings, then there could be a danger of more misleading information becoming available that could perhaps add to an already confusing environment.

27th September 2024, 08:56 PM	#1
awdaniec666 Member Join Date: May 2021 Location: Central Europe Posts: 167	Looking for beginners guide to Keris Hi! Some of you may already noticed that there is a project called "The Gladiological" which I recently found - it´s an online magazine about swords from all over the world basically. We already have plenty of articles about European and Near Eastern swords, but looking at the masses of information in this specific subforum I cannot pass without asking if there is anybody here who would be keen to pass on his/her knowledge about Keris for people like me who are pretty much unfamiliar about this kind of sword in a "beginners guide" for the magazine. If you are interested, please get in touch via our website (www.thegladiological.com) or private message here! Patrick

28th September 2024, 12:22 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	Patrick, I've had a look at this site, and I would appreciate your further comments. It seems to me that the objective of this site is to provide a place for the online publication of writings --- ie, articles or whatever --- that deal with edged weaponry. Am I correct or am I incorrect? Perhaps the compilation of a directory of online sources of information related to edged weaponry might be a worthwhile project?

28th September 2024, 08:53 AM	#3
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 477	there are many books and there are many scholarly articles, but these days information on line is what works the best. Personally I find that there have been, over the years, some sites from which I got much help and information. One is certainly http://old.blades.free.fr, admittedly the navigation isn't very intuitive but once you get to explore this you will get a lot of information, please explore (as I said the exploration isn't as intuitive as it may be), there is a LOT there not only on krises but also other edged weapons from the area and way beyond

29th September 2024, 11:10 AM	#4
awdaniec666 Member Join Date: May 2021 Location: Central Europe Posts: 167	Hi A.G., Hi Milandro, thank you for replying! - The Site is mainly about edged weapons and I will implement noswonogus too (not swords and not guns, like axes and spears). - A list of links is probably something for forums like this one. I made the Glad primarily because I love to write. - I personally will not research Keris swords, and wonÂ’t write about them. I am looking for somebody who knows about the topic and likes to write something basic for readers with different interests than Keris. - Thanks for the sources. I will check them. Such articles are ideal for people who are just curious what a certain topic offers but do not intend to collect those swords and spend hours into research. ItÂ’s supposed to be an excourse, a glimpse over the edge. I was once asked if we pay our authors - the whole project is being resized in our free time and is not even non-profit, but non-financial, we practically loose money by making everything available for free and like to write and share knowledge. But we cannot cover every type of swords on earth with our small team. Maybe I wasnÂ’t clear enough

30th September 2024, 08:53 AM	#5
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 477	Cheers! If I were you I'd still give it a go and contact the person whom seems to be running that site Dominique Buttin dbuttin@hotmail.com here his biography http://old.blades.free.fr/utilities/biography.htm

30th September 2024, 11:39 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	David, what you have written here is, I believe, very true. I think of the matter itself as being a bit of a Catch 22 situation:- there is a tremendous quantity of information about keris (& other things) available on the net, but you need to already be an expert to be able to separate the gold from the clay. If one were to put in 20 or 30 years or so of dedicated study & research from traditional sources and then to tackle the net & the hodge-podge of ignorance, misinformation & just plain lies that we find there, then that person might be able to have some sort of understanding of the subject. If one is already educated in the subject of keris, then the net can become a very valuable resource, if one is still in kindergarten, well, I reckon one is likely to drown before graduation day. That is where a Forum such a this one can really help, at its best this Forum can help clarify understandings and show a path forward for both the dedicated & casual student. As for a simple primer on keris, I personally like David van Duuren's "The Kris", maybe somebody might like to compress this into a 5K word essay? Then we have two really valuable printed books, bibliographies, one by Timothy Rogers, one by David van Duuren. They seldom get mentioned, but these two books are a truly invaluable resource for any serious student of the keris, or in Timothy's case, any serious student of the weaponry of the Malay World. But to return to the subject of Patrick's invitation. I think that this new initiative that he has drawn our attention to could perhaps provide a place for publication of writings in the field, however, unless provision were to be made for review & commentary on those writings, then there could be a danger of more misleading information becoming available that could perhaps add to an already confusing environment.