The Burial of Ghosts

A. G. Maisey · 9th October 2010, 01:44 AM

During the last couple of weeks I have had three emails from three different people whom I believe do not know one another. At least I am certain that two of them do not know each other.

These people have drawn my attention to a thread in this forum which I had forgotten about, and all have asked me essentially the same question:-

"even though you said in that thread that you would no longer reply to any posts from Ganjawulung, how could you allow him to call you a liar and to act in such a blind and arrogant way without responding? "

I have replied to these three people that I probably didn't even read the thread after I had said I had no further interest, and that if I did, I would not have responded to the insults in any case.

One of these people who emailed me asked if I actually had proof that Empu Suparman had said to me that "buntel mayit" was wrong, and that "buntel mayat" was the correct name, for instance, had I recorded the conversation? I replied that I had not made recordings, but that I always keep notebooks of information gained in respect of keris.

It has taken me a couple of hours to find my original notebook entry in relation to what Empu Suparman said to me in relation to this pamor motif, and I provide here photos of the page in the notebook. This entry was made on Thursday 26 February 1987, in Kampung Komplang, Solo.

I apologise for not recording the entire contents of the conversation that occurred, but when these notes were made this was only one very minor piece of information amongst many pieces of information that I regarded as very much more important. I did not envisage that 20 years later I would need to demonstrate that I was not lying.

Here is a link to the thread:-

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/printt...p?t=4662&pp=40

I don't know how they found this thread, because I've tried to find it using the search function in the forum, and I cannot go back far enough. The net has a very long memory.

Hopefully this will answer those who may have thought that I was inventing things to suit my own ends.

Anybody who cares to make an appointment with me can inspect the notebook concerned in person, and anybody who doubts my connection with Empu Suparman is welcome to inspect relevant entries in his dairies, which were bequeathed to me when he passed away.

Incidentally, the "P.P." in my notes refers to Pak Parman, which is how I addressed Empu Suparman.

David · 9th October 2010, 07:05 AM

Not that it needs to be said, but there certainly was never any doubt in my mind that you recollection of this information was correct.

Gavin Nugent · 9th October 2010, 07:28 AM

Alan,

I too wouldn't have a doubt in my mind either. The pursuit in truth of the wonders of the Keris seems to me, to be the sole life's pursuit of yours .

Whilst I walk on the fringe of the Keris world, at this stage of my life, my collecting and interest lays purely in what I find attractive to my eye and certain aspects of the metaphysical influences of design.
I have always found your posts relaible and informative and most of all substantiated. You also clearly note at a number of intersections that aspects about certain topics of the day are outside of your field of expertise and you are not afraid to say so, to read comments like that alone, certainly validates in my eyes your integrity and the fact you you would not need to lie to anyone about anything related to the subject.
From memory, you have noted some parts of old catalogues might not be your proudest moments, for those who have them they are a wealth of information.
I do not know your end game with this mountain of wealth of knowledge Alan, but it is my hope it is put to proper print one day.

Gav

Jim McDougall · 9th October 2010, 04:23 PM

While the world of the keris among many other weapon forms of these and SE Asian regions are far beyond my field of study, the one key figure in the study of the keris I do know, is Alan Maisey.

I also know that he is one of the most incredibly modest scholars I have ever known, and probably will take me to task for saying so, but I am compelled to respond here and add to Gav's beautifully worded entry.

In the many years I have known Alan (many!

the single thing that has stood out the most is one most important to me, integrity. In these years he always has gone out of his way to assist me in my never ending quest to learn about obscure facts in weapons study, and openly shared from his vast store of knowledge. In many cases he thoughtfully extended new information pertaining to something I had been pursuing, even years after the original question. One of the greatest compliments I have ever received was from him when advising me of items in a recently released publication he knew I would read , with his own annotations, recognizing my penchant for accuracy and detail in my studies.

In cases where his words were challenged, it is not his style to succumb to the mediocre provocation of individuals trying to assert thier 'superior' knowledge at his expense. Responding in kind would only demean his stature and be entirely against his grain.

It is one thing to wish to learn more on something being noted by politely asking for more information on sources, but to imply or openly claim that statements made by a scholar such as Mr. Maisey are less than genuinely correct, is patently discourteous and says more about the perpetrator himself.

I do not know the details of the interaction being discussed, but I do know Alan Maisey, and wanted to note proudly that I'm glad I do.

Respectfully,
Jim

A. G. Maisey · 9th October 2010, 10:52 PM

Thank you for the vote of confidence, gentlemen, and for your compliments --- probably undeserved.

Gavin, in respect of any possible future publication, I have only one thing to say:- don't hold your breath.

I have been urged for many years to "write a book", the first attempt to get me to do so was more than 40 years ago, when Ken Trotman was involved in the urging.

I will never attempt to write any book. Production of a book takes a very committed effort over a long period of time, and a lot of money. I have neither the time, nor the money, and when I consider what I have, and that could be published, that could add positively to the base of knowledge, I doubt that I have the commitment.

However, I have produced a few articles, at least one of which can probably be considered to be a positive contribution, and I do have another couple of articles planned.

Montino Bourbon · 12th October 2010, 04:29 AM

Where is it?

It's not like I'm impatient or anything... It's that any article by a person that I consider to be at the very least one of the greatest authorities on keris is something that I want to read... NOW!!!

A. G. Maisey · 12th October 2010, 04:59 AM

These have been around for a long time:-

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/kerisinformation.html

scroll down to "on-line references"

The "origin" thing is possibly important; before this you could get an argument anytime if you started to talk about where keris came from. Nobody argues any more.

9th October 2010, 01:44 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,877	The Burial of Ghosts During the last couple of weeks I have had three emails from three different people whom I believe do not know one another. At least I am certain that two of them do not know each other. These people have drawn my attention to a thread in this forum which I had forgotten about, and all have asked me essentially the same question:- "even though you said in that thread that you would no longer reply to any posts from Ganjawulung, how could you allow him to call you a liar and to act in such a blind and arrogant way without responding? " I have replied to these three people that I probably didn't even read the thread after I had said I had no further interest, and that if I did, I would not have responded to the insults in any case. One of these people who emailed me asked if I actually had proof that Empu Suparman had said to me that "buntel mayit" was wrong, and that "buntel mayat" was the correct name, for instance, had I recorded the conversation? I replied that I had not made recordings, but that I always keep notebooks of information gained in respect of keris. It has taken me a couple of hours to find my original notebook entry in relation to what Empu Suparman said to me in relation to this pamor motif, and I provide here photos of the page in the notebook. This entry was made on Thursday 26 February 1987, in Kampung Komplang, Solo. I apologise for not recording the entire contents of the conversation that occurred, but when these notes were made this was only one very minor piece of information amongst many pieces of information that I regarded as very much more important. I did not envisage that 20 years later I would need to demonstrate that I was not lying. Here is a link to the thread:- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/printt...p?t=4662&pp=40 I don't know how they found this thread, because I've tried to find it using the search function in the forum, and I cannot go back far enough. The net has a very long memory. Hopefully this will answer those who may have thought that I was inventing things to suit my own ends. Anybody who cares to make an appointment with me can inspect the notebook concerned in person, and anybody who doubts my connection with Empu Suparman is welcome to inspect relevant entries in his dairies, which were bequeathed to me when he passed away. Incidentally, the "P.P." in my notes refers to Pak Parman, which is how I addressed Empu Suparman. Attached Images

9th October 2010, 07:28 AM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	too true Alan, I too wouldn't have a doubt in my mind either. The pursuit in truth of the wonders of the Keris seems to me, to be the sole life's pursuit of yours . Whilst I walk on the fringe of the Keris world, at this stage of my life, my collecting and interest lays purely in what I find attractive to my eye and certain aspects of the metaphysical influences of design. I have always found your posts relaible and informative and most of all substantiated. You also clearly note at a number of intersections that aspects about certain topics of the day are outside of your field of expertise and you are not afraid to say so, to read comments like that alone, certainly validates in my eyes your integrity and the fact you you would not need to lie to anyone about anything related to the subject. From memory, you have noted some parts of old catalogues might not be your proudest moments, for those who have them they are a wealth of information. I do not know your end game with this mountain of wealth of knowledge Alan, but it is my hope it is put to proper print one day. Gav

12th October 2010, 04:29 AM	#6
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 301	The article!!!! Where is it? It's not like I'm impatient or anything... It's that any article by a person that I consider to be at the very least one of the greatest authorities on keris is something that I want to read... NOW!!!

9th October 2010, 07:05 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,113	Not that it needs to be said, but there certainly was never any doubt in my mind that you recollection of this information was correct.

9th October 2010, 04:23 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	While the world of the keris among many other weapon forms of these and SE Asian regions are far beyond my field of study, the one key figure in the study of the keris I do know, is Alan Maisey. I also know that he is one of the most incredibly modest scholars I have ever known, and probably will take me to task for saying so, but I am compelled to respond here and add to Gav's beautifully worded entry. In the many years I have known Alan (many! the single thing that has stood out the most is one most important to me, integrity. In these years he always has gone out of his way to assist me in my never ending quest to learn about obscure facts in weapons study, and openly shared from his vast store of knowledge. In many cases he thoughtfully extended new information pertaining to something I had been pursuing, even years after the original question. One of the greatest compliments I have ever received was from him when advising me of items in a recently released publication he knew I would read , with his own annotations, recognizing my penchant for accuracy and detail in my studies. In cases where his words were challenged, it is not his style to succumb to the mediocre provocation of individuals trying to assert thier 'superior' knowledge at his expense. Responding in kind would only demean his stature and be entirely against his grain. It is one thing to wish to learn more on something being noted by politely asking for more information on sources, but to imply or openly claim that statements made by a scholar such as Mr. Maisey are less than genuinely correct, is patently discourteous and says more about the perpetrator himself. I do not know the details of the interaction being discussed, but I do know Alan Maisey, and wanted to note proudly that I'm glad I do. Respectfully, Jim

9th October 2010, 10:52 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,877	Thank you for the vote of confidence, gentlemen, and for your compliments --- probably undeserved. Gavin, in respect of any possible future publication, I have only one thing to say:- don't hold your breath. I have been urged for many years to "write a book", the first attempt to get me to do so was more than 40 years ago, when Ken Trotman was involved in the urging. I will never attempt to write any book. Production of a book takes a very committed effort over a long period of time, and a lot of money. I have neither the time, nor the money, and when I consider what I have, and that could be published, that could add positively to the base of knowledge, I doubt that I have the commitment. However, I have produced a few articles, at least one of which can probably be considered to be a positive contribution, and I do have another couple of articles planned.

12th October 2010, 04:59 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,877	These have been around for a long time:- http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/kerisinformation.html scroll down to "on-line references" The "origin" thing is possibly important; before this you could get an argument anytime if you started to talk about where keris came from. Nobody argues any more.