Interesting Afghan Heavy cavalry sword for comments.

Atlantia · 19th January 2011, 11:34 PM

Can you gentlemen have a look at this please.
It needs some tlc on the scabbard and a good clean-up.
Any information greatfully received.

Bit of a variation on the usual 'Kyber Knife'!

Nagawarrior · 20th January 2011, 02:05 AM

A nice variant of the c1890 military sword. I like it.

Congrates. Here are pictures of mine. Note damascus blade on one. Also Kyber knife dating from the same period with similar handle. See the guy in the middle in the photo has on a similar sword, a little hard to see.

-Stephen*

Gavin Nugent · 20th January 2011, 02:08 AM

Indeed all lovely old warriors and great to see the blade variation in these hilts.

There are also examples of signed Wootz Shamshir blades with these hilt.

Thanks for sharing.

Gav

Atlantia · 20th January 2011, 09:27 AM

Brilliant, thank you my friends.

Stephen,

Lovely pair that you've got there

What is the top scabbard covered with? Is it leather or canvas?
I'm going to need to repair and recover mine.

Your picture led me down into further research and I found it again on the net.
I guess my sword may well be a bringback from the Second Anglo-Afghan War?
Have you got the full story of that pic? I love the facial expressions and body language in this picture. I'm not feeling a lot of 'love' in it!

Group. The Amir Yakub Khan, General Daod Shah, Habeebula Moustafi, with Major Cavagnari C.S.I. & Mr Jenkyns [Gandamak].

Photograph, a formal seated portrait of five figures (Major Cavagnari second from left, Amir Yakub Khan in the centre, the tall Daoud Shah next to the Amir, and Jenkyns and Habibullah Moustafi at extreme left and right), taken by John Burke at Gandmak in Afghanistan in May 1879. Burke accompanied British forces into Afghanistan in 1878 and covered the events of the Second Anglo-Afghan War (1878-80), becoming the first significant photographer of the country and its people in the process. The British, having defeated the Amir Sher Ali's forces, wintered in Jalalabad, waiting for the new Amir Yakub Khan to accept their terms and conditions. One of the key figures in the negotiations was Pierre Louis Napoleon Cavagnari (1841-1879). A half-Irish, half-Italian aristocrat, descended from the royal family of Parma on his father's side, he had been brought up in England, with schooling at Addiscombe. He served with the East India Army in the 1st Bengal Fusiliers and then transferred into political service, becoming Deputy Commisssioner at Peshawar, and was appointed as envoy by the Viceroy Lord Lytton in the 1878 mission to Kabul which the Afghans refused to let proceed. This refusal was one of a series of events which led to the Second Afghan War.

In the photograph, the 34 year old Yakub is wearing the white clothes he favoured. The six foot tall Daoud Shah, from the Ghilzai tribe, was his commander-in-chief. He had served under the former Amir Sher Ali as well and was known as an able man. Habibullah Khan had been a trusted confidant of Sher Ali and was now the moustafi or prime minister of Yakub Khan.

In May 1879, Yakub Khan travelled to Gandamak, a village just outside Jalalabad and entered into negotiations with Cavagnari as a result of which the Treaty of Gandamak was signed whereby the Amir ceded territories to the British and accepted a British envoy in Kabul. Cavagnari took up the post of British Resident in Kabul in July 1879. He was known to be reckless and arrogant rather than discreet and his role as envoy was viewed as injudicious even by some of the British. The situation in Kabul was tense and eventually some Afghan troops who had not been paid by the Amir rebelled and attackled the Residency, killing Cavagnari and his mission in September 1879. The war was far from over despite the treaty and British troops were recalled over the mountains to occupy Kabul, secure it and launch punitive action against the Afghans. Yakub Khan abdicated, taking refuge in the British camp and was subsequently sent to India in December.

Nagawarrior · 20th January 2011, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Brilliant, thank you my friends.

Stephen,

Lovely pair that you've got there

What is the top scabbard covered with? Is it leather or canvas?
I'm going to need to repair and recover mine.

Thanks for the compliment. The scabbard covering is leather.
Great research! The quality of your picture is excellent. Jim McDougall and a buddy of mine did the research that found the photo for me. The photo is in the book "Northwest Frontier: People and Events 1839-1947" by Arthur Swinson (N.Y.1967). See more discussion here http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=nagawarrior

Atlantia · 20th January 2011, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nagawarrior

Thanks for the compliment. The scabbard covering is leather.
Great research! The quality of your picture is excellent. Jim McDougall and a buddy of mine did the research that found the photo for me. The photo is in the book "Northwest Frontier: People and Events 1839-1947" by Arthur Swinson (N.Y.1967). See more discussion here http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=nagawarrior

Hi Stephen,

Thanks for the link. Here's an altered version of the image, with some of the fading 'restored'.
Just in case it's of any use to you (or anyone else).
Do you know anything else about these swords?
Daoud Shah is described as commander in chief of the Amir's forces. I can't imagine that these were staff officer swords, but they are certainly not 'tribesmans' swords either. Any information on who carried them?
I've seen a Kyber knife with this type of guard, but never one of these sabres (in person) Are they rare?

Nagawarrior · 20th January 2011, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi Stephen,

Thanks for the link. Here's an altered version of the image, with some of the fading 'restored'.
Just in case it's of any use to you (or anyone else).
Do you know anything else about these swords?
Daoud Shah is described as commander in chief of the Amir's forces. I can't imagine that these were staff officer swords, but they are certainly not 'tribesmans' swords either. Any information on who carried them?
I've seen a Kyber knife with this type of guard, but never one of these sabres (in person) Are they rare?

The picture is of great use to me and I'm sure others. We gain so much understanding from our interaction here. I thank you very much.
Don't know much else other than what I have learned here. These were probably issued in some numbers. Its the quality of the blade that makes the difference between officer and regular troops I believe. The wootz bladed sword of mine probably belonging to an officer or body guard. They are a bit rare perhaps. I see these come up every so often. There is one in the swap forum right now. I've seen them at gun shows too. My buddy spoke of a large stash that was found a while back. All I know is I like 'em. Yours especially.

-Stephen*

Atlantia · 21st January 2011, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nagawarrior

The picture is of great use to me and I'm sure others. We gain so much understanding from our interaction here. I thank you very much.
Don't know much else other than what I have learned here. These were probably issued in some numbers. Its the quality of the blade that makes the difference between officer and regular troops I believe. The wootz bladed sword of mine probably belonging to an officer or body guard. They are a bit rare perhaps. I see these come up every so often. There is one in the swap forum right now. I've seen them at gun shows too. My buddy spoke of a large stash that was found a while back. All I know is I like 'em. Yours especially.

-Stephen*

You're very kind Stephen, but mine looks quite plain compared with your beauties.
It does swing rather well though

I'll come back with some cleaned pictures when it's restored. Has some pitting, but generally not bad.
Best
Gene

Nagawarrior · 21st January 2011, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

You're very kind Stephen, but mine looks quite plain compared with your beauties.
It does swing rather well though

I'll come back with some cleaned pictures when it's restored. Has some pitting, but generally not bad.
Best
Gene

I like the subtle curve of your sword blade Gene and the lovely patina of the handle. Yours also has the two suspension rings just like in the photo

Look forward to the restoration pics.

-Stephen*

19th January 2011, 11:34 PM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Interesting Afghan Heavy cavalry sword for comments. Can you gentlemen have a look at this please. It needs some tlc on the scabbard and a good clean-up. Any information greatfully received. Bit of a variation on the usual 'Kyber Knife'!

20th January 2011, 02:08 AM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Lovely Indeed all lovely old warriors and great to see the blade variation in these hilts. There are also examples of signed Wootz Shamshir blades with these hilt. Thanks for sharing. Gav

20th January 2011, 02:05 AM	#2
Nagawarrior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Inland Empire, Southern California USA Posts: 160	A nice variant of the c1890 military sword. I like it. Congrates. Here are pictures of mine. Note damascus blade on one. Also Kyber knife dating from the same period with similar handle. See the guy in the middle in the photo has on a similar sword, a little hard to see. -Stephen*

20th January 2011, 09:27 AM	#4
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Brilliant, thank you my friends. Stephen, Lovely pair that you've got there What is the top scabbard covered with? Is it leather or canvas? I'm going to need to repair and recover mine. Your picture led me down into further research and I found it again on the net. I guess my sword may well be a bringback from the Second Anglo-Afghan War? Have you got the full story of that pic? I love the facial expressions and body language in this picture. I'm not feeling a lot of 'love' in it! Group. The Amir Yakub Khan, General Daod Shah, Habeebula Moustafi, with Major Cavagnari C.S.I. & Mr Jenkyns [Gandamak]. Photograph, a formal seated portrait of five figures (Major Cavagnari second from left, Amir Yakub Khan in the centre, the tall Daoud Shah next to the Amir, and Jenkyns and Habibullah Moustafi at extreme left and right), taken by John Burke at Gandmak in Afghanistan in May 1879. Burke accompanied British forces into Afghanistan in 1878 and covered the events of the Second Anglo-Afghan War (1878-80), becoming the first significant photographer of the country and its people in the process. The British, having defeated the Amir Sher Ali's forces, wintered in Jalalabad, waiting for the new Amir Yakub Khan to accept their terms and conditions. One of the key figures in the negotiations was Pierre Louis Napoleon Cavagnari (1841-1879). A half-Irish, half-Italian aristocrat, descended from the royal family of Parma on his father's side, he had been brought up in England, with schooling at Addiscombe. He served with the East India Army in the 1st Bengal Fusiliers and then transferred into political service, becoming Deputy Commisssioner at Peshawar, and was appointed as envoy by the Viceroy Lord Lytton in the 1878 mission to Kabul which the Afghans refused to let proceed. This refusal was one of a series of events which led to the Second Afghan War. In the photograph, the 34 year old Yakub is wearing the white clothes he favoured. The six foot tall Daoud Shah, from the Ghilzai tribe, was his commander-in-chief. He had served under the former Amir Sher Ali as well and was known as an able man. Habibullah Khan had been a trusted confidant of Sher Ali and was now the moustafi or prime minister of Yakub Khan. In May 1879, Yakub Khan travelled to Gandamak, a village just outside Jalalabad and entered into negotiations with Cavagnari as a result of which the Treaty of Gandamak was signed whereby the Amir ceded territories to the British and accepted a British envoy in Kabul. Cavagnari took up the post of British Resident in Kabul in July 1879. He was known to be reckless and arrogant rather than discreet and his role as envoy was viewed as injudicious even by some of the British. The situation in Kabul was tense and eventually some Afghan troops who had not been paid by the Amir rebelled and attackled the Residency, killing Cavagnari and his mission in September 1879. The war was far from over despite the treaty and British troops were recalled over the mountains to occupy Kabul, secure it and launch punitive action against the Afghans. Yakub Khan abdicated, taking refuge in the British camp and was subsequently sent to India in December.