help with devangari inscription

psingh123 · 4th December 2020, 03:44 PM

hello forum members.

I need your assistance in deciphering this inscription, which I believe is devanagari. I have picked out a few words such as 'sri baldev ji sahai' and 'samvat'.

Is anyone able to assist with this? much appreciated! images are attached. there seems to be some date at the end? especially since 'samvat' is written before it...

Envodas · 4th December 2020, 06:19 PM

I can't help you with the translation however i've spotted a tulwar with identical koftgari work and similar characters, perhaps it could help you with translation?

Sorry i can't be of more use.

Ian · 4th December 2020, 07:31 PM

Hi psingh.

Welcome to the forum. Would you please post a picture of the entire sword, as noted in the sticky at the top of this forum's page.

Ian.

Jens Nordlunde · 6th December 2020, 03:29 PM

A friend in India has helped with translating the text.

Shri Baldevji Sahay Rup Singh Sangawat Samb(v)at 1911.
Shri Baldevji is the Deva to whom obseience is paid. Rup Singh is obviously the ownern of the piece who belongs to the Sangawat Rajput clan. Samvat is V.S. the Northern Hindu year.

The year looks crudely done (maybe a local variant of numerals) VS 1911 So this is around 1855 AD.
I have a tulwar from Alwar/Ulwar with a closely related text dated VS 1856 - 1799-1800 AD.

psingh123 · 7th December 2020, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

A friend in India has helped with translating the text.

Shri Baldevji Sahay Rup Singh Sangawat Samb(v)at 1911.
Shri Baldevji is the Deva to whom obseience is paid. Rup Singh is obviously the ownern of the piece who belongs to the Sangawat Rajput clan. Samvat is V.S. the Northern Hindu year.

The year looks crudely done (maybe a local variant of numerals) VS 1911 So this is around 1855 AD.
I have a tulwar from Alwar/Ulwar with a closely related text dated VS 1856 - 1799-1800 AD.

thats fantastic Jen! Might you know who Rup Singh Sangawat is? I also noticed 'sri baldevji sahay' is on a shield at the V&A which belonged to ram singh of kotah. So maybe its 'region'/rajput specific?

psingh123 · 7th December 2020, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi psingh.

Welcome to the forum. Would you please post a picture of the entire sword, as noted in the sticky at the top of this forum's page.

Ian.

Hi Ian, I will do! I'm currently taking them so I will post them as soon as I have finished editing them, etc.!

psingh123 · 7th December 2020, 09:20 PM

Might you/anyone know who rup singh sangawat was?

psingh123 · 8th December 2020, 11:01 AM

thanks jens! that is very helpful.

I will post pics of the full sword, just finishing them off, e.g. editing etc

anyone have an idea of who Rup Singh Sangawat might be?

Mercenary · 3rd January 2021, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psingh123

anyone have an idea of who Rup Singh Sangawat might be?

I'm afraid it doesn't matter. I don't think this sword belonged to him. There are handles that are very simply decorated, with poorly made inscriptions often with errors and missing characters. Such inscriptions always start with "Shri Baldev Ji Sahai" but what's next doesn't matter.
In the best case it is possible that such swords belonged to the rajah's servants or officers.

mariusgmioc · 3rd January 2021, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercenary

There are handles that are very simply decorated, with poorly made inscriptions often with errors and missing characters. Such inscriptions always start with "Shri Baldev Ji Sahai" but what's next doesn't matter.
In the best case it is possible that such swords belonged to the rajah's servants or officers.

Surely there are very poorly made hilts with spurious inscriptions, but this one looks very well made... at least from the photos we have.

So this definitely doesn't look like a servant sword hilt.

Mercenary · 3rd January 2021, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Surely there are very poorly made hits with spurious inscriptions, but this one looks very well made... at least from the photos we have.

So this definitely doesn't look like a servant sword hilt.

In the case of the "owner's inscription" exactly in this place of hilt I only trust in such a sword of raja and an inscription (attached). I am talking about swords of 19th - 20th, when, apparently, such a fashion appeared. In Gold we trust.

ariel · 3rd January 2021, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercenary

I'm afraid it doesn't matter. I don't think this sword belonged to him.

Jens' translation clearly states that the sword DID NOT belong to Shri Baldevji.
See:
"Shri Baldevji Sahay Rup Singh Sangawat Samb(v)at 1911.
Shri Baldevji is the Deva to whom obseience is paid. Rup Singh is obviously the ownern of the piece who belongs to the Sangawat Rajput clan."

Mercenary · 3rd January 2021, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Jens' translation clearly states that the sword DID NOT belong to Shri Baldevji.
See:
"Shri Baldevji Sahay Rup Singh Sangawat Samb(v)at 1911.
Shri Baldevji is the Deva to whom obseience is paid. Rup Singh is obviously the ownern of the piece who belongs to the Sangawat Rajput clan."

Ariel, thanks for responding. I really went deep into the study of the religious culture of India, but I am still far from looking for the sword of Shri Baldev Ji.
I just wanted to point out that we need to be careful with such inscriptions on the hilt.

ariel · 4th January 2021, 01:02 AM

Had it been inscribed with the name of Shah Jahan , we could have been rightfully skeptical.
But Rup Singh? Some functionary so minor, that nobody even knows his name or place on the totem pole?

I wouldn’t doubt his ownership of this sword or his subservient position to Sri Baldev Ji.

BTW, who was this Sri Baldev Ji? :-)))

psingh123 · 4th January 2021, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Had it been inscribed with the name of Shah Jahan , we could have been rightfully skeptical.
But Rup Singh? Some functionary so minor, that nobody even knows his name or place on the totem pole?

I wouldn’t doubt his ownership of this sword or his subservient position to Sri Baldev Ji.

BTW, who was this Sri Baldev Ji? :-)))

maybe baldev is referring to balarama? the older brother of krishna who was also referred to as baladeva?

Mercenary · 4th January 2021, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

BTW, who was this Sri Baldev Ji? :-)))

I apologize. It is not always written "Sri Baldev Ji" on such hilt. On the hilt from the post of Envodas it is written "Sri Baidyanath Ji". Very crudely and with mistakes. I do not believe that this was written by the court masters in the 19th century.

Baldev, Baidyanath ... are different representations of Shiva.

4th December 2020, 03:44 PM	#1
psingh123 Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 33	help with devangari inscription hello forum members. I need your assistance in deciphering this inscription, which I believe is devanagari. I have picked out a few words such as 'sri baldev ji sahai' and 'samvat'. Is anyone able to assist with this? much appreciated! images are attached. there seems to be some date at the end? especially since 'samvat' is written before it... Attached Images

4th December 2020, 06:19 PM	#2
Envodas Member Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 1	I can't help you with the translation however i've spotted a tulwar with identical koftgari work and similar characters, perhaps it could help you with translation? Sorry i can't be of more use. Attached Images

6th December 2020, 03:29 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	A friend in India has helped with translating the text. Shri Baldevji Sahay Rup Singh Sangawat Samb(v)at 1911. Shri Baldevji is the Deva to whom obseience is paid. Rup Singh is obviously the ownern of the piece who belongs to the Sangawat Rajput clan. Samvat is V.S. the Northern Hindu year. The year looks crudely done (maybe a local variant of numerals) VS 1911 So this is around 1855 AD. I have a tulwar from Alwar/Ulwar with a closely related text dated VS 1856 - 1799-1800 AD. Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 6th December 2020 at 03:46 PM.

4th December 2020, 07:31 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Hi psingh. Welcome to the forum. Would you please post a picture of the entire sword, as noted in the sticky at the top of this forum's page. Ian.

7th December 2020, 09:20 PM	#7
psingh123 Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 33	Might you/anyone know who rup singh sangawat was?

8th December 2020, 11:01 AM	#8
psingh123 Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 33	thanks jens! that is very helpful. I will post pics of the full sword, just finishing them off, e.g. editing etc anyone have an idea of who Rup Singh Sangawat might be?

4th January 2021, 01:02 AM	#14
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Had it been inscribed with the name of Shah Jahan , we could have been rightfully skeptical. But Rup Singh? Some functionary so minor, that nobody even knows his name or place on the totem pole? I wouldn’t doubt his ownership of this sword or his subservient position to Sri Baldev Ji. BTW, who was this Sri Baldev Ji? :-)))