An antique recent kindjal

[BBking]

Good evening everybody,
What do you think please of this kindjal ?

A ''bad'' recent blade but the scabbard seems well made and not top recent.
Maybe silver or silvered copper with some colored parts.

A recent copy ? not the usual recent kindjal but made for look antique ?

Or an antique kindjal with a new blade ?
? ( hilt seems broken and welded again )

Last : mid 20th model when real blades disappeared...

[ariel]

Can you show the back of the scabbard? Sometimes there may be a telltale mark.

[Ren Ren]

According to the style of decor, I can assume that this dagger was made in Dagestan by an Avar master from the village of Gotsatl. Production time - 1980-1990. I agree with ariel, you need to look at the back of the scabbard. If the item was made before 1991, then there will definitely be manufacturer's marks.

[BBking]

Thank you for the replies !!
Here some pictures of the back of the scabbard.
Really nothing special / no stamp or other drawing / engraving...

[ariel]

Well, the back of the scabbard was not informative, but even without it one can be certain that we are dealing with a recent, mass-produced tourist kindjal. Nothing “old” or even “vintage”.

[cyten]

Here in the Caucasus, there are many of these new made kindjals available in flea markets and tourist areas. Some are even purposely aged to look like antiques. But it is also quite possible to find true antique fittings for the blades and scabbards. Some people are making use of these on new blades.

[BBking]

Hello and thank you for the reply,

Just a question:

Except the blade, I ve got a similar kindjal in scabbard and hilt work.( cf older Thread)
The kindjal, good blade helps, was considerated dating from end 19th/ early 20th century
In the same way no mark or signature on the back.

If I change the blade , they are ''the same'' !

So this scabbard can be newly made ,
It can be made for decoration-tourists
( a thought :
can Daghestan bladesmiths still produce kindjals with real forged blades ?? Neve saw )

I can't imagine it was made in massive production like the cast models or ugly recent ones.

Ren Ren you talked about an Avar master,
Was it a generic name ??

[BBking]

Like this one per example

[ariel]

This one is likely 100% the very end of the 20th, more likely 21 century.
These days, most Georgian kindjals on e-bay are newly made.
And, yes, there are some made in traditional way, which is nice: those masters keep traditions alive.
The golden era of 1980-1990s, when Georgians were selling really good and antique weapons is over. At least they are not stupidly greedy like Chinese and Indian sellers. Buying from those two countries is like playing Russian roulette with fully loaded chambers.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by ariel

This one is likely 100% the very end of the 20th, more likely 21 century.
These days, most Georgian kindjals on e-bay are newly made.
And, yes, there are some made in traditional way, which is nice: those masters keep traditions alive.
The golden era of 1980-1990s, when Georgians were selling really good and antique weapons is over. At least they are not stupidly greedy like Chinese and Indian sellers. Buying from those two countries is like playing Russian roulette with fully loaded chambers.

Hello BBking.

Ariel is absolutely right.

Of course, the first dagger from the theme looks more attractive than the second. But nevertheless, with regret, I have to agree with Ren Ren that this is a modern work. There are some nuances, except for the absence of assay marks on the reverse side, which speak of this.

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by BBking

Ren Ren you talked about an Avar master,
Was it a generic name ??

Several dozen peoples live in Dagestan, of which the Avars are one of the largest. The Avar village of Gotsatl is a large and well-known center of jewelry craftsmanship, especially the art of silver processing. But the Dargin village of Kubachi is certainly larger and better known. Previously, each people in Dagestan had its own style of decorating daggers. Now some of the traditions have been lost, but the work of silversmiths from Gotsatl and Kubachi is still different.

[Ren Ren]

Originally Posted by ariel

Well, the back of the scabbard was not informative, but even without it one can be certain that we are dealing with a recent, mass-produced tourist kindjal.

It is very easy to distinguish a "tourist kindjal" - the hardness of the blade cannot be higher than 25 HRC. This rule was valid in the USSR, and is still valid in Russia.