Pattern Welded Curved British(?) Dagger

Roland_M · 5th September 2017, 07:37 PM

Hi all,
here is an unusual pattern welded curved dagger of european origin. According to the description the dagger was made in Sheffield. Length is 33 cm (13"), blade only 17,5 cm (7"). No markings at all, except the initials "DK". The massive silver pommel is a good counterweight to the heavy blade. The handle looks strange curved but lies very good in hand.

One picture shows some remains of black laquer, which indicates some decades of age. I think the dagger was made before WW1, around 100 years ago or more.

I hope, someone can say more. The only thing I could found is a similar hilt from Sheffield and late 19th ct..

Hope you enjoy the pictures.

Best wishes,
Roland

thinreadline · 5th September 2017, 08:22 PM

I would be very surprised if this blade / handle combination had been made in Sheffield in times past . It would be very surprising if a Sheffield maker of a knife blade of this quality did not put both their name and Sheffield address on it . Additionally it is most unusual for English knives of the 19th century to be curved . There is also no crossguard , something which would never be the case in an English dagger , but would be typical in a domestic table cutlery carving knife . The marked curve of the handle is typical English carving knives of the late 19th century , affording a very postive forward grip required for carving a joint of meat at the table. This may be a European knife , I dont know, I have no expertise in non-British European knives of this period , but to me it looks as though it could be a relatively modern blade that has been married to a good quality Sheffield 19th Century carving knife handle ..... along the lines of the handle of the one in the photograph below ....

thinreadline · 5th September 2017, 09:09 PM

here is another example of a Victorian Sheffield carving knife which has been badly recently remodelled as a 'bowie' knife with the intent to deceive .

shayde78 · 6th September 2017, 12:57 AM

Acknowledging that my two cents are not worth a hay-penny, the Damascus looks very modern to me. I'm curious if others can offer insights into how valid my gut feeling is, and why or why not.

Still a handsome kit, even if reconstituted from spare bits, as thinread suggests.

Timo Nieminen · 6th September 2017, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shayde78

Acknowledging that my two cents are not worth a hay-penny, the Damascus looks very modern to me. I'm curious if others can offer insights into how valid my gut feeling is, and why or why not.

Looks like a modern Pakistani or Indian damascus blade to me. If it was old, I'd expect the stain (used to enhance the contrast) to have been polished off.

Will M · 6th September 2017, 02:46 AM

I agree the blade looks modern, the handle most likely taken from a carving set either the steel, fork or carving knife.
Looks like an interesting mating of handle and blade.

Roland_M · 11th September 2017, 09:59 AM

Thanks for all opinions, I appreciate them very much.

The blade could be Asian origin, I dont know.

All I can say is that the blade is not just intended as a wallhanger, because it shows traces of wear and was resharpened at least one time. I think it might be a skinning knife.

The pommel is neither screwed nor glued to the hilt, it is riveted and covered with silver.

Maybe the seller made a mistake in the description. I bought two daggers from an inheritance from him. He sold me this dagger as a Sheffield dagger and a true marked wonderful Sheffield Bestsilversteel-dagger as American dagger.

Thats all I know.

Regards,
Roland

Roland_M · 14th September 2017, 03:40 PM

I have asked the seller and he says probably English hilt and blade from India or Pakistan.

5th September 2017, 07:37 PM	#1
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	Pattern Welded Curved British(?) Dagger Hi all, here is an unusual pattern welded curved dagger of european origin. According to the description the dagger was made in Sheffield. Length is 33 cm (13"), blade only 17,5 cm (7"). No markings at all, except the initials "DK". The massive silver pommel is a good counterweight to the heavy blade. The handle looks strange curved but lies very good in hand. One picture shows some remains of black laquer, which indicates some decades of age. I think the dagger was made before WW1, around 100 years ago or more. I hope, someone can say more. The only thing I could found is a similar hilt from Sheffield and late 19th ct.. Hope you enjoy the pictures. Best wishes, Roland Attached Images

5th September 2017, 08:22 PM	#2
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	I would be very surprised if this blade / handle combination had been made in Sheffield in times past . It would be very surprising if a Sheffield maker of a knife blade of this quality did not put both their name and Sheffield address on it . Additionally it is most unusual for English knives of the 19th century to be curved . There is also no crossguard , something which would never be the case in an English dagger , but would be typical in a domestic table cutlery carving knife . The marked curve of the handle is typical English carving knives of the late 19th century , affording a very postive forward grip required for carving a joint of meat at the table. This may be a European knife , I dont know, I have no expertise in non-British European knives of this period , but to me it looks as though it could be a relatively modern blade that has been married to a good quality Sheffield 19th Century carving knife handle ..... along the lines of the handle of the one in the photograph below .... Attached Images Last edited by thinreadline; 5th September 2017 at 09:03 PM.

5th September 2017, 09:09 PM	#3
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	here is another example of a Victorian Sheffield carving knife which has been badly recently remodelled as a 'bowie' knife with the intent to deceive . Attached Images

6th September 2017, 12:57 AM	#4
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Acknowledging that my two cents are not worth a hay-penny, the Damascus looks very modern to me. I'm curious if others can offer insights into how valid my gut feeling is, and why or why not. Still a handsome kit, even if reconstituted from spare bits, as thinread suggests.

6th September 2017, 02:46 AM	#6
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	I agree the blade looks modern, the handle most likely taken from a carving set either the steel, fork or carving knife. Looks like an interesting mating of handle and blade.

11th September 2017, 09:59 AM	#7
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	Thanks for all opinions, I appreciate them very much. The blade could be Asian origin, I dont know. All I can say is that the blade is not just intended as a wallhanger, because it shows traces of wear and was resharpened at least one time. I think it might be a skinning knife. The pommel is neither screwed nor glued to the hilt, it is riveted and covered with silver. Maybe the seller made a mistake in the description. I bought two daggers from an inheritance from him. He sold me this dagger as a Sheffield dagger and a true marked wonderful Sheffield Bestsilversteel-dagger as American dagger. Thats all I know. Regards, Roland

14th September 2017, 03:40 PM	#8
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	I have asked the seller and he says probably English hilt and blade from India or Pakistan.