Armoured breast plate ID please

Ken Maddock · 20th November 2014, 08:59 PM

Hi All

I just purchased this breast plate from a local estate auction,

What I think I have is a breastplate from the 17th century, it is of typical
Peascod design.

It weighs in at a hefty 4.5kg, (10 lb) the dimension are as follows:

height from waist to bottom of neck -37 cm
max height 44 cm

width from armpit to armpit 46 cm, shortest distance across breast is 25cm

The front of the breast plate is in fantastic condition with a great patina
and a very good smooth finish

A makers mark (I think) is stamped at the neck but I can make out no detail

One proving shot dent on the right side of the central ridge

The back of the plate is of a rough hammered finish and has been varnished
in the past so it has an unusual colour in the picture.

There are remnants of the studs on the inside of the armour for both the
shoulder straps but these studs are now gone.

On the edges near the arm pits there is some evidence of lamination.

So questions is this a genuine piece as far as you can tell, and if so could
you give an estimation of country of origin and age.

The item was purchased in Ireland.
Any advice or comments welcome, i got this at a stupid price so if there are uncomfortable truths to be learned I can take it
regards and thanks to all
ken

A Senefelder · 21st November 2014, 01:19 AM

While it is clearly hand forged I don't see any open holes that would have held the pins ( most likely for 17th century ) or buckles to engage the straps that would be used to wear it. Are there rivet heads showing inside that I can't make out that may be filling in these holes?

estcrh · 21st November 2014, 03:26 AM

It looks real, here is a similar example with the shoulder studs still present, described as an English Civil War Period Harquebusier's Cuirass.

Marcus den toom · 21st November 2014, 09:38 AM

I saw similar breastplates in the Tower of Londen last summer and that dent is indeed a shot marking.. which makes me think this is English and most likely that of the English civil war period (1640s).
The marking would be interesting to see, could you photograph this for us? I also thoughed there should be numbers within such an armour, but i only studied these items briefly.

A Senefelder · 21st November 2014, 01:27 PM

Quote:

There are remnants of the studs on the inside of the armour for both the

Ken my apologies I missed this part or your OP. Please ignore my first post.

The small residual peascod, somewhat ragged outer edges seen where the neck and arm openings are rolled ( i'm guessing over a heavy wire or shaped iron round stock ) and the straight break of the neck line ( meant to act as a gorget would thus obviating the need for one ) all indicate as you surmised 17th century date. I've owned several 17th c. breast plates over the years ( pics of the last one attached ) and all shared these features. The shape of the residual peascod can vary a bit. Given the point of purchase, an ECW attributation in natural to assume but English manufacture is not. The English imported large quantites of continental armour from a Europe glutted with it from The 30 Years War so it is an either or as far as point of manufacture.

Kmaddock · 21st November 2014, 05:56 PM

Hi All,
I appreciate the time you have all taken to reply to my enquiry.
As a new forum member who does not know a lot about such things I do not like always to be asking questions without giving much in the way of contributions.
Great to get a confirmation that my hunch was correct, I have some French armour form the 1830's and the difference in weight was what made me think this might be the genuine item, for the price of 2 take out pizzas I was prepared to gamble.

I have put up some pictures of the remnants of the studs and the mark on the neck for the sake of completion of the post, I do not think the mark will tell much as there is not a lot of definition.

I am not much into cleaning things beyond active rust, not laziness mind you, just I question too much restoration and patina removal. However, would it be wise to remove the varnish or just leave it as part of the history of the item, I have full access to any solvents and fume hoods as I work in chemistry so if you know of any good varnish removers please advise, di chloromethane would be my first choice but am open to suggestions.
Again thanks and regards
Ken

Ken Maddock · 21st November 2014, 07:14 PM

Last of pictures above is the indentation of the armoury mark on the neck of the breast plate, the proceeding ones are the inside of the breast plate showing the stud remnants, I used a triangle of paper to show the remnant on one side of the armour which is quiet small
Note the shinyness is all due to the varnish on the inside
Regards
Ken

A Senefelder · 21st November 2014, 09:12 PM

Ken, at this period armour of munitions quality like this were being produced in large quantities so the stamp at the neck line is as likely to be an armoury control mark as any sort of makers mark. As for cleaning it, that of course is your call but I left things as they were baring aggressive active rust on armour. If it was varninshed I left the varnish in place.

20th November 2014, 08:59 PM	#1
Ken Maddock Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Posts: 104	Armoured breast plate ID please Hi All I just purchased this breast plate from a local estate auction, What I think I have is a breastplate from the 17th century, it is of typical Peascod design. It weighs in at a hefty 4.5kg, (10 lb) the dimension are as follows: height from waist to bottom of neck -37 cm max height 44 cm width from armpit to armpit 46 cm, shortest distance across breast is 25cm The front of the breast plate is in fantastic condition with a great patina and a very good smooth finish A makers mark (I think) is stamped at the neck but I can make out no detail One proving shot dent on the right side of the central ridge The back of the plate is of a rough hammered finish and has been varnished in the past so it has an unusual colour in the picture. There are remnants of the studs on the inside of the armour for both the shoulder straps but these studs are now gone. On the edges near the arm pits there is some evidence of lamination. So questions is this a genuine piece as far as you can tell, and if so could you give an estimation of country of origin and age. The item was purchased in Ireland. Any advice or comments welcome, i got this at a stupid price so if there are uncomfortable truths to be learned I can take it regards and thanks to all ken Attached Images

21st November 2014, 03:26 AM	#3
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,497	It looks real, here is a similar example with the shoulder studs still present, described as an English Civil War Period Harquebusier's Cuirass. Attached Images

21st November 2014, 05:56 PM	#6
Kmaddock Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 543	Hi All, I appreciate the time you have all taken to reply to my enquiry. As a new forum member who does not know a lot about such things I do not like always to be asking questions without giving much in the way of contributions. Great to get a confirmation that my hunch was correct, I have some French armour form the 1830's and the difference in weight was what made me think this might be the genuine item, for the price of 2 take out pizzas I was prepared to gamble. I have put up some pictures of the remnants of the studs and the mark on the neck for the sake of completion of the post, I do not think the mark will tell much as there is not a lot of definition. I am not much into cleaning things beyond active rust, not laziness mind you, just I question too much restoration and patina removal. However, would it be wise to remove the varnish or just leave it as part of the history of the item, I have full access to any solvents and fume hoods as I work in chemistry so if you know of any good varnish removers please advise, di chloromethane would be my first choice but am open to suggestions. Again thanks and regards Ken Attached Images

21st November 2014, 01:19 AM	#2
A Senefelder Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 214	While it is clearly hand forged I don't see any open holes that would have held the pins ( most likely for 17th century ) or buckles to engage the straps that would be used to wear it. Are there rivet heads showing inside that I can't make out that may be filling in these holes?

21st November 2014, 09:38 AM	#4
Marcus den toom Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 525	I saw similar breastplates in the Tower of Londen last summer and that dent is indeed a shot marking.. which makes me think this is English and most likely that of the English civil war period (1640s). The marking would be interesting to see, could you photograph this for us? I also thoughed there should be numbers within such an armour, but i only studied these items briefly.

21st November 2014, 07:14 PM	#7
Ken Maddock Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Posts: 104	Last of pictures above is the indentation of the armoury mark on the neck of the breast plate, the proceeding ones are the inside of the breast plate showing the stud remnants, I used a triangle of paper to show the remnant on one side of the armour which is quiet small Note the shinyness is all due to the varnish on the inside Regards Ken

21st November 2014, 09:12 PM	#8
A Senefelder Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 214	Ken, at this period armour of munitions quality like this were being produced in large quantities so the stamp at the neck line is as likely to be an armoury control mark as any sort of makers mark. As for cleaning it, that of course is your call but I left things as they were baring aggressive active rust on armour. If it was varninshed I left the varnish in place.