Bali/Sumatran piso podang swap?

Tim Simmons · 28th March 2009, 05:15 PM

I have this piece and a few other Asian pieces that I may swap. What I like is African weapons {ceremonial/parade}, clubs, I still need a good wire covered knobkerrie. I would like a club from New Britian area, Solomans, Vanuatu. I would like one of the stone ball or disc clubs.

This piece is 43 inches ---- 108cm out of the scabbard. The blade is in very good condition etched showing all the pattern welded steel. The inscription relates to this period of production. 1806-10

ca . 1806 French Empire of Napoleon I

The word impériale is mentioned (Impale)
Mf ure Imp ale du Klingenthal Coulaux frères
Mf ure Imp ale du Klingenthal Coulaux

More information can be found at this site. It was suggested to me that this form of blade is not common even for Klingenthal production.

http://users.skynet.be/euro-swords/klingenthal.htm

You can email or pm for more pictures. Sorry some of these are rather large for this site but it is a big sword.

ericlaude · 29th March 2009, 12:24 AM

I'm interested, I have diferent africaain weapon for swap
rico94.claude@wanadoo.fr

CharlesS · 29th March 2009, 01:17 AM

Tim,

I have sent an email.

Tim Simmons · 29th March 2009, 01:08 PM

Pictures under a magnification to show the etched surface not rust pitting rather like the surface of a keris or one of those Sumartran sikim? things.

I am also think about letting the Ban go too, blade 17.5 inches or 45.5cm, heavy.

Henk · 29th March 2009, 04:47 PM

Tim,

The Piso Podang has a very charming appearance. I think i do love it, but something puzzles me.
A Klingenthal blade means a French blade used for a Piso Podang. Unusual, but not a complete surprise. But a laminated blade like a keris means it should be a pamor blade. I don't think a European and in this case a French blade is forged in that way. I can hardly imagine it really is.
So the only conclusion is that the rough surface must be caused by rust pitting.

But still, I love this piece!!

Flavio · 29th March 2009, 04:57 PM

Hi Henk!

From this picture the blade seems laminated. Maybe the writing was made on a local blade after

just a guess

Tim Simmons · 29th March 2009, 04:59 PM

Henk this is not really the place to talk about it but think---- Napoleon's Dutch governer sent to Bali sets up armoury. Imported pattern welded blade adapted to local tastes ie etched. All research information can be found without difficulty. To help people google "Herman Willem Daendels" for a basic history.

The blade of the Ban is laminated, I will try to show this.

Henk · 29th March 2009, 07:45 PM

Hi Tim, I suppose this isn't the right place indeed. But the Piso Podang intrigued me so much. I cann't recall you showed this piece on the forum for comment.

From the pictures the blade seems laminated and the writing could be done on a local blade. Completely agree. But the tip under the magnify glass shows a different pattern. More pitting in contradiction to the laminated part.

But I thank you in the first place for the education in my own Dutch history

.
Herman Willem Daendels, it couldn't be more dutch, could be very likely the solution to this Piso Podang.

Tim Simmons · 29th March 2009, 09:12 PM

I take these pictures. The light in some pictures under the magnifying lamp make a slight blue colour. On the black leather background there is more true colour. It is a crystaline putty paste substance.

Tim Simmons · 29th March 2009, 09:48 PM

I am still looking for the right type of New Britian club or paddle club or indeed many shaped clubs from Vanautu or there abouts.

Tim Simmons · 30th March 2009, 07:13 AM

Long scabbard long blade. Blade and scabbard mouth made for each other. Carving a little rough hilt rub scabbard both sides, one side more. The hilt cup it set at a slight angle in the same way as the French handle pommel is. French blade indonesian scabbard and hilt. Most swords are made of three parts.

Tim Simmons · 30th March 2009, 05:33 PM

I think a swap has been made.

Tim Simmons · 30th March 2009, 07:06 PM

Swap made. Thanks all for your interest. There is still Bhutan Ban thingy.

fernando · 30th March 2009, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

Hi Henk!

From this picture the blade seems laminated. Maybe the writing was made on a local blade after

just a guess

Now that it is already traded, i will have to say that, i might be completely wrong but, also the first impression i had was that the Kligenthal writing is not genuine

asomotif · 31st March 2009, 12:08 AM

Come on guys, this is the swap.
this piece has been (and still is) on the discussion forum, take it there.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=klingenthal

fernando · 31st March 2009, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Come on guys, this is the swap.
this piece has been (and still is) on the discussion forum, take it there.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=klingenthal

Well, you got a good memory, certainly beter than mine; i see that it was discussed i the forum one and half year ago.
But incidently it happens that it has been (also) comented here, now. Note, it is already swapped. No depreciation intended; just an honest apreciation towards the rigour of the description. Certainly this would not be the wrong place for that

.

Bill M · 31st March 2009, 01:10 PM

I respectfully disagree. Comments, by others than the seller, should be made in the discussion forum.

fernando · 31st March 2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

I respectfully disagree. Comments, by others than the seller, should be made in the discussion forum.

And i deeply respect yours or anyone else's disagreement.
I was only comenting on somebody's coment.
However i reiterate my position that, when i am or will be offering something under a probable misdescription, for as well intentioned as it may be, will stand passive to see its contents be questioned.
I consider this a healthy attitude.
Fernando

28th March 2009, 05:15 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Bali/Sumatran piso podang swap? I have this piece and a few other Asian pieces that I may swap. What I like is African weapons {ceremonial/parade}, clubs, I still need a good wire covered knobkerrie. I would like a club from New Britian area, Solomans, Vanuatu. I would like one of the stone ball or disc clubs. This piece is 43 inches ---- 108cm out of the scabbard. The blade is in very good condition etched showing all the pattern welded steel. The inscription relates to this period of production. 1806-10 ca . 1806 French Empire of Napoleon I The word impériale is mentioned (Impale) Mf ure Imp ale du Klingenthal Coulaux frères Mf ure Imp ale du Klingenthal Coulaux More information can be found at this site. It was suggested to me that this form of blade is not common even for Klingenthal production. http://users.skynet.be/euro-swords/klingenthal.htm You can email or pm for more pictures. Sorry some of these are rather large for this site but it is a big sword. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 28th March 2009 at 09:11 PM.

29th March 2009, 12:24 AM	#2
ericlaude Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 187	swap I'm interested, I have diferent africaain weapon for swap rico94.claude@wanadoo.fr

29th March 2009, 01:08 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Pictures under a magnification to show the etched surface not rust pitting rather like the surface of a keris or one of those Sumartran sikim? things. I am also think about letting the Ban go too, blade 17.5 inches or 45.5cm, heavy. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 29th March 2009 at 01:31 PM.

29th March 2009, 04:57 PM	#6
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi Henk! From this picture the blade seems laminated. Maybe the writing was made on a local blade after just a guess Attached Images

29th March 2009, 04:59 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Henk this is not really the place to talk about it but think---- Napoleon's Dutch governer sent to Bali sets up armoury. Imported pattern welded blade adapted to local tastes ie etched. All research information can be found without difficulty. To help people google "Herman Willem Daendels" for a basic history. The blade of the Ban is laminated, I will try to show this. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 29th March 2009 at 05:35 PM.

29th March 2009, 01:17 AM	#3
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Tim, I have sent an email.

29th March 2009, 04:47 PM	#5
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Tim, The Piso Podang has a very charming appearance. I think i do love it, but something puzzles me. A Klingenthal blade means a French blade used for a Piso Podang. Unusual, but not a complete surprise. But a laminated blade like a keris means it should be a pamor blade. I don't think a European and in this case a French blade is forged in that way. I can hardly imagine it really is. So the only conclusion is that the rough surface must be caused by rust pitting. But still, I love this piece!!

29th March 2009, 07:45 PM	#8
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Hi Tim, I suppose this isn't the right place indeed. But the Piso Podang intrigued me so much. I cann't recall you showed this piece on the forum for comment. From the pictures the blade seems laminated and the writing could be done on a local blade. Completely agree. But the tip under the magnify glass shows a different pattern. More pitting in contradiction to the laminated part. But I thank you in the first place for the education in my own Dutch history . Herman Willem Daendels, it couldn't be more dutch, could be very likely the solution to this Piso Podang.

29th March 2009, 09:12 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	I take these pictures. The light in some pictures under the magnifying lamp make a slight blue colour. On the black leather background there is more true colour. It is a crystaline putty paste substance. Attached Images

29th March 2009, 09:48 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	I am still looking for the right type of New Britian club or paddle club or indeed many shaped clubs from Vanautu or there abouts.

30th March 2009, 07:13 AM	#11
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Long scabbard long blade. Blade and scabbard mouth made for each other. Carving a little rough hilt rub scabbard both sides, one side more. The hilt cup it set at a slight angle in the same way as the French handle pommel is. French blade indonesian scabbard and hilt. Most swords are made of three parts. Attached Images

30th March 2009, 05:33 PM	#12
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	I think a swap has been made.

30th March 2009, 07:06 PM	#13
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Swap made. Thanks all for your interest. There is still Bhutan Ban thingy.

31st March 2009, 12:08 AM	#15
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,224	Come on guys, this is the swap. this piece has been (and still is) on the discussion forum, take it there. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=klingenthal

31st March 2009, 01:10 PM	#17
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	I respectfully disagree. Comments, by others than the seller, should be made in the discussion forum.