Two interesting wooden spears...from where??

Andy Stevens · 31st October 2012, 05:26 PM

Hello all. These two spears have us stumped! The dark wood example we think could possibly be Australian Aboriginal, the other barbed type maybe from Papua? After much research we have no definite answers and ask the collective wisdom of the forum for help

The dark wood spear has a dense, hard wood tip very firmly attached to a lighter wood haft.
The lighter barbed spear has a nice and unusual grain pattern and has been well carved.
Dark wood spear overall length:106cm
Barked spear :150cm

We are unable to take full length pictures today due to bad light, they will follow asap!

Any opinions very welcome. Many thanks!

Tim Simmons · 31st October 2012, 06:17 PM

The long smooth horn pointed one is South Sudan and very nice. Still thinking about the second.

Here at Pitt-Rivers Oxford.
http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/details/1973.16.2/

Andy Stevens · 1st November 2012, 03:34 PM

Hello Tim and thank you for the information and link to the Pitt Rivers collection, a truly fantastic resource. We're used to handling different types of metal spears but encounter few made from purely natural materials. This is a heavy, brutal weapon and would have been very effective in close quarter combat. We're still searching the net for info on the barbed spear and will update the post if we find anything! Regards Andy and Karina

colin henshaw · 1st November 2012, 11:25 PM

Hi

Would be interested to see more images of the spear with the barbed head, including full-length.... Australian Aboriginal is a possibility, but could be from elsewhere.

fearn · 2nd November 2012, 01:22 AM

On the barbed one, I keep finding myself thinking "It's from Touristania." That's an uncharitable thought and I hope a wrong one. The issue is that I can't figure out what they were going to use those big huge barbs for, wherever it was made. Unless there's evidence that it was deliberately blunted...

F

VANDOO · 2nd November 2012, 08:17 AM

THERE ARE TWO SPEARS I HAVE PICTURES OF THAT RESEMBLE THIS FORM OF BARBED SPEAR A LITTLE. NO DOUBT THERE ARE OTHER SIMULAR EXAMPLES FROM VARIOUS OTHER PLACES.
THE SINGLE SPEAR WITH STEEL TIP IS IDENTIFIED AS ,ENGGANO ISLAND OFF OF SUMATRA.
THE SECOND POSSIBILITY IS IN A GROUP OF SPEARS SAID TO BE FROM LUZON, PHILIPPINES I DON'T KNOW IF THE TIP IS WOOD OR METAL.
NEITHER OF YOUR SPEARS STRIKE ME AS MADE FOR TOURISTS. I LIKE THEM BOTH.

Nonoy Tan · 2nd November 2012, 10:36 AM

Not Philippines.

Andy Stevens · 2nd November 2012, 01:31 PM

Colin: We are trying to get some better pictures sorted out today including full length shots and close ups of the barbs.

Fearn: At first glance we too thought it could be a tourist item but once in the hand and given a better look see, our opinion changed. It feels right, but like you point out its purpose is rather obscure-perhaps a dance spear, could be funky in the right disco light!

Vandoo: Thanks for the pics, very nice and interesting grouping and some are indeed similar in design.

Does anybody recognise the wood used? The dark pattern in the grain is rather attractive and the wood is pretty strong, capable of use. The search continues.......

A&K

Andy Stevens · 2nd November 2012, 01:51 PM

Here are some more pics of the spear!

colin henshaw · 5th November 2012, 02:35 PM

Thanks for the further images. However, I cannot really identify this piece - Australian Aboriginal spears I have seen are of a close-grained wood, not like this example which looks like teak ? with that pronounced stringy grain.

I'm puzzled by the scorching to the barbed head, which look as if done by a metal implement. Its true that Australian Aborigines used flat wooden tool/weapon surfaces for making fire, but I doubt if this is the case here. Also there seem to be vice and file ? marks to the wood, which is odd. The point does appear a bit blunt to make an effective weapon.

So, unfortunately I cannot say what this is with any certainty - maybe other forumites have some ideas...

Regards.

Andy Stevens · 5th November 2012, 04:11 PM

Hi Colin
Thanks for looking the spear over. I'm holding the thing in my hand as I type, and I'm none the wiser as to its origins or purpose. However, I would say that somebody put cosiderable effort into the making of spear, some of the barbs are still sharp and appear to have been capable of inflicting injury. The patterning in the wood is curious, perhaps this is a dance or ceromonial item? An interesting thing. Thanks A&K

31st October 2012, 05:26 PM	#1
Andy Stevens Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: London Posts: 155	Two interesting wooden spears...from where?? Hello all. These two spears have us stumped! The dark wood example we think could possibly be Australian Aboriginal, the other barbed type maybe from Papua? After much research we have no definite answers and ask the collective wisdom of the forum for help The dark wood spear has a dense, hard wood tip very firmly attached to a lighter wood haft. The lighter barbed spear has a nice and unusual grain pattern and has been well carved. Dark wood spear overall length:106cm Barked spear :150cm We are unable to take full length pictures today due to bad light, they will follow asap! Any opinions very welcome. Many thanks! Attached Images

2nd November 2012, 08:17 AM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THERE ARE TWO SPEARS I HAVE PICTURES OF THAT RESEMBLE THIS FORM OF BARBED SPEAR A LITTLE. NO DOUBT THERE ARE OTHER SIMULAR EXAMPLES FROM VARIOUS OTHER PLACES. THE SINGLE SPEAR WITH STEEL TIP IS IDENTIFIED AS ,ENGGANO ISLAND OFF OF SUMATRA. THE SECOND POSSIBILITY IS IN A GROUP OF SPEARS SAID TO BE FROM LUZON, PHILIPPINES I DON'T KNOW IF THE TIP IS WOOD OR METAL. NEITHER OF YOUR SPEARS STRIKE ME AS MADE FOR TOURISTS. I LIKE THEM BOTH. Attached Images

2nd November 2012, 01:51 PM	#9
Andy Stevens Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: London Posts: 155	Here are some more pics of the spear! Attached Images

31st October 2012, 06:17 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	The long smooth horn pointed one is South Sudan and very nice. Still thinking about the second. Here at Pitt-Rivers Oxford. http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/details/1973.16.2/

1st November 2012, 03:34 PM	#3
Andy Stevens Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: London Posts: 155	Hello Tim and thank you for the information and link to the Pitt Rivers collection, a truly fantastic resource. We're used to handling different types of metal spears but encounter few made from purely natural materials. This is a heavy, brutal weapon and would have been very effective in close quarter combat. We're still searching the net for info on the barbed spear and will update the post if we find anything! Regards Andy and Karina

1st November 2012, 11:25 PM	#4
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Hi Would be interested to see more images of the spear with the barbed head, including full-length.... Australian Aboriginal is a possibility, but could be from elsewhere.

2nd November 2012, 01:22 AM	#5
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	On the barbed one, I keep finding myself thinking "It's from Touristania." That's an uncharitable thought and I hope a wrong one. The issue is that I can't figure out what they were going to use those big huge barbs for, wherever it was made. Unless there's evidence that it was deliberately blunted... F

2nd November 2012, 10:36 AM	#7
Nonoy Tan Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 293	Not Philippines.

2nd November 2012, 01:31 PM	#8
Andy Stevens Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: London Posts: 155	Colin: We are trying to get some better pictures sorted out today including full length shots and close ups of the barbs. Fearn: At first glance we too thought it could be a tourist item but once in the hand and given a better look see, our opinion changed. It feels right, but like you point out its purpose is rather obscure-perhaps a dance spear, could be funky in the right disco light! Vandoo: Thanks for the pics, very nice and interesting grouping and some are indeed similar in design. Does anybody recognise the wood used? The dark pattern in the grain is rather attractive and the wood is pretty strong, capable of use. The search continues....... A&K

5th November 2012, 02:35 PM	#10
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Thanks for the further images. However, I cannot really identify this piece - Australian Aboriginal spears I have seen are of a close-grained wood, not like this example which looks like teak ? with that pronounced stringy grain. I'm puzzled by the scorching to the barbed head, which look as if done by a metal implement. Its true that Australian Aborigines used flat wooden tool/weapon surfaces for making fire, but I doubt if this is the case here. Also there seem to be vice and file ? marks to the wood, which is odd. The point does appear a bit blunt to make an effective weapon. So, unfortunately I cannot say what this is with any certainty - maybe other forumites have some ideas... Regards.

5th November 2012, 04:11 PM	#11
Andy Stevens Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: London Posts: 155	Hi Colin Thanks for looking the spear over. I'm holding the thing in my hand as I type, and I'm none the wiser as to its origins or purpose. However, I would say that somebody put cosiderable effort into the making of spear, some of the barbs are still sharp and appear to have been capable of inflicting injury. The patterning in the wood is curious, perhaps this is a dance or ceromonial item? An interesting thing. Thanks A&K