Landean Pralamba Collection (part of)

Amuk Murugul · 20th May 2018, 06:02 AM

Hullo everybody!

Still in the middle of 'house-keeping'.
Thought I'd snap'n'post while they're out.
Just to show/share.
Hope it's of use to somebody.
Best,

1.
Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir Tandjoeng Patani w/ embossed white-metal wewer.
Sheath: Wood Majang Golekan Patani w/ embossed white metal bands/ftgs.

2.
Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir Tandjoeng Patani w/ copper wewer and eyes.
Sheath: Wood Two-tone Majang Golekan Patani.

3.
Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir Tandjoeng Patani.
Sheath: Two-tone wood Majang Golekan Patani.

4.
Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir Noengkoel Tandjoeng Patani.
Sheath: Wood Majang Golekan Patani.

5.
Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir Noengkoel Tandjoeng Patani.
Sheath:Wood Majang Golekan Patani.

6.
Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir Tjawsteung.
Sheath: Wood Majang Golekan Singgora w/ white-metal bands/ftgs.

7.
Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir TjawSteung.
Sheath: Wood one-piece.

8.
Handle: Wood Boeta Noengkoel Tandjoeng Patani.
Sheath: Wood, one-piece.

9.
Handle: White-metal Boeta Njengir Nanggahan Malaka.
Sheath: Wood Djongan w/ white-metal embossed-oversheath.

10.
Handle: White-metal Boeta Njengir Djanggotan.
Sheath: Wood Djongkong w/ silver ftgs.

11.
Handle: Ivory Boeta Njengir w/ white-metal wewer and rings.
Sheath: Wood Djongan w/ white-metal embossed sheath and rings; ivory toe.

12.
Handle: White-metal Boeta Njanggejeng Gilek w/ white-metal wewer.
Sheath: Wood Djongan w/ bronze o/sheath in Widjaja-motif.

13.
Handle: White-metal Kitjaka w/ white-metal wewer.
Sheath: Wood Majang Golekan.

14.
Handle: Wood Kitjaka w/ white-metal wewer.
Sheath: Wood Djongkong.

15.
Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir Tandjoeng Patani (SLEMAN).
Sheath: Wood Djongan w/ soenggingan Barata.

16.
Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir Tandjoeng Patani (SLEMAN).
Sheath: Wood Saridjong w/ soenggingan alas-alasan.

17.
Handle: Wood Boeta Toengkoel w/ white-metal fangs, wewer, nose & golden eyes.
Sheath: Wood Saridjong.

18.
Handle: White-metal Boeta Njengir Tjawsteung.
Sheath: Wood Djongan.

19.
Handle: White-metal Boeta Njengir Tjawsteung.
Sheath: Wood Majang Golekan Singgora w/ white-metal bands/ftgs.

20.
Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir Tjawsteung.
Sheath: Wood Majang Golekan Singgora w/ white-metal bands/ftgs.

21.
Handle: Wood Boeta Toengkoel.
Sheath: Wood Majang Golekan.

22.
Handle: Wood Hoeloe Boeta.
Sheath: Wood Kintjangwidjaja.

23.
Handle: Wood Boeta Njanggejeng w/ white-metal wewer.
Sheath: Wood Djongkong w/ white-metal o/sheath showing Widjaja-motif.

24.
Handle: Horn Boeta Nanggahan .
Sheath: Wood Djongkong w/ embossed white-metal o/sheath.

25.
Handle: Wood Boeta Njanggejeng Gilek w/ bronze wewer.
Sheath: Wood Djongkong w/ white-metal hanger.

Paul de Souza · 20th May 2018, 08:38 AM

Pardon my ignorance but what collection is this? From a museum or a personal collection. Just taken by the the Tajong and coteng pieces and hilts.

Jean · 20th May 2018, 10:36 AM

Very nice collection, thanks! It is not my area of collecting but I am a bit surprised by the mixing of tajong style hilts and Javanese scabbards?
Regards

David · 20th May 2018, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Very nice collection, thanks! It is not my area of collecting but I am a bit surprised by the mixing of tajong style hilts and Javanese scabbards?
Regards

Well someone like tajong hilts for sure.

I agree with Jean. Seems like a very nice collection (though the blades themselves would tell more), but the tajong hilts mixed with the Javanese sheaths do not make much sense to my eye. Not sure that they make much sense on keris panjang either.

Jean · 20th May 2018, 05:12 PM

Hello Amuk,
The wood species names are unknown to me (majang, djongan, etc), do you know their equivalent in Bahasa Indonesia? And as David said, it would be nice to see the blades also and the detailed pics of the hilts.
Regards

Amuk Murugul · 20th May 2018, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul de Souza

Pardon my ignorance but what collection is this? From a museum or a personal collection. Just taken by the the Tajong and coteng pieces and hilts.

Hullo Paul,

Just a sub-group of my personal collection.
Best,

Amuk Murugul · 20th May 2018, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Very nice collection, thanks! It is not my area of collecting but I am a bit surprised by the mixing of tajong style hilts and Javanese scabbards?
Regards

Hullo Jean,

Well, just to remind me that those hilts were made in Sleman, central Java.

Best,

Amuk Murugul · 20th May 2018, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello Amuk,
The wood species names are unknown to me (majang, djongan, etc), do you know their equivalent in Bahasa Indonesia? And as David said, it would be nice to see the blades also and the detailed pics of the hilts.
Regards

Hullo again Jean,

They are not wood species, rather the type of sheath, equivalent to the mainstream gayaman, ladrang etc. Apologies for the lack of punctuation.
Best,

Amuk Murugul · 20th May 2018, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Well someone like tajong hilts for sure.

I agree with Jean. Seems like a very nice collection (though the blades themselves would tell more), but the tajong hilts mixed with the Javanese sheaths do not make much sense to my eye. Not sure that they make much sense on keris panjang either.

Hullo David,

I deliberately didn't include the blades as it may detract from the fact that the pieces are grouped according to hilts. So my prime interest in this group is the hilts. The Djawa sheaths are used to remind me that the associated hilts are Djawa.The keris pandjang hilts are original to the kerises (popular until the end of the 19thC.).
I may do the blades at some time in the future, bit by bit. I'm not articulate enough and can only 11-finger type.

Best,

A. G. Maisey · 21st May 2018, 05:03 AM

Thank you for posting these images Amuk, very interesting.

You advise that the names you have used for the scabbards are in a language other than BI or Javanese, that the names you have used are not mainstream names.

May I ask the place and time when the names that you use for the scabbards would be recognised by a person who was keris literate?

Thank you.

Paul de Souza · 21st May 2018, 05:21 AM

Just curious. But isn't the spelling Amuk is using Dutch?

"Tjawsteung" = Coteng

"Tandjoeng" = Tajong

I have a relative whose father hails from Bangka Island, under Dutch control in the 30s, has the surname Tjang but the rest of the cousins born in Singapore, under the British, have the surname Chang.

Amuk is not usisg the spelling of Bahasa Indonesia or Malaysia.

Are u from Holland Amuk?

A. G. Maisey · 21st May 2018, 10:14 AM

Paul in 1972 Indonesia changed the spelling of words from the Dutch system to the English system. Javanese and other local language spellings followed suit. So pre-1972 it was Dutch convention, post 1972 it was English convention

As far as names go, some people have stayed with the old Dutch spellings, others have changed to new spelling.

In the list below, the first column is post 1972 usage, the second column is pre-1972 usage

u = oe
c = tj
j = dj
kh = ch
ny = nj
sy = sj
y = j

This only refers to spelling, pronunciation is consistent no matter what spelling is used, and of course, pronunciation must be learnt separately.

BI is the national and public language, everybody uses a local language at home and mostly in the street.

Correction

It has been rather forcefully pointed out to me that in the case of the letter "u" replacing the Dutch usage of "oe", this change dates from 1947.

Apparently the new regime in the new country of Indonesia had such a deep seated hatred of the previous Dutch overlords that one of their first actions was to get rid of this "oe" usage, something that they found extremely offensive, and in addition, out of step with the Modern World.

David · 21st May 2018, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo David,

I deliberately didn't include the blades as it may detract from the fact that the pieces are grouped according to hilts. So my prime interest in this group is the hilts. The Djawa sheaths are used to remind me that the associated hilts are Djawa.The keris pandjang hilts are original to the kerises (popular until the end of the 19thC.).
I may do the blades at some time in the future, bit by bit. I'm not articulate enough and can only 11-finger type.

Best,

So, you are saying that you the hilts on #15,#16 and #17 are all modern creations that you know were carved in Jawa?
The collection is yours and you are free to dress them as you please, of course, but these hilts still look strange and out of place with those sheaths no matter where they were actually carved. Are the blades within the Jawa sheaths also from Jawa?

Amuk Murugul · 5th July 2019, 05:53 AM

Hullo everybody!

Just thought I'd drop the following three examples (with a little more data).
It's posted as is, merely for sharing only.
Info may be of use ..... otherwise: ".....nothing to see here .....".

From L-R:

. Doehoeng SINGGORA (=pale/foreign lion; named after the Turco-Mongol warrior who founded the city/state)

Name: Datoe Mogel.
Desc: Doehoeng Borodjol Lempeng SINGGORA .
Tags: Cenok , Chenok , Chenuk , Choteng , Coteng , Singgora , Singora , Songkhla .
Char: -
Blade: LxOALxWxT=24.5x29x5.33x0.95cm.
Wt: 75g.
Handle: White-metal Jaksa(=benevolent spirit; handle symbolises human-spirit partnership) Ardatjandrakapida(=spear-of-mastery-over-celestial-beings) TJAWSTEUNG(=canal-people).
Sheath: Wood Majang Golekan SINGGORA w/ white-metal bands/ftgs.

. Doehoeng PATANI (=pavilion; named after the pavilion built for the ruler who reached the coast to found a new city/state)

Name: Radja Pelangi
Desc: Doehoeng Sampana Tjotjodot Sari Ngahateup Lempeng 18thC. PATANI .
Tags: Pattani , Tajong , Tajung .
Char: Kembang-katjang, Djanoer-rai, Oepih-moetjoek, Lempeng .
Blade: LxOALxWxT=39.5x45x8.42x1.22cm.
Handle: Wood Jaksa Birawi(=destructive-wind) TANDJOENG PATANI(=Patani-cape), swasa nose, ruby eyes w/ white-metal collar.
Wt:196g.
Sheath: Wood Majang Golekan PATANI w/ ivory chape.

. Doehoeng Pandjang MALAKA

Name: Hang Toeah
Desc: Doehoeng Pandjang Tilamsari Lempeng MALAKA c1900 .
Tags: Execution , Executioner , Penyalang , Salang .
Char: Oepih , Lempeng .
Blade: LxOALxWxT=51x57x7.05x1.24cm.
Wt: 325g.
Handle: White-metal Jaksa Soetjimoesti (=unstoppable-fist).
Sheath: Wood Djongan w/ white-metal embossed-oversheath.

Best,

Jean · 5th July 2019, 09:58 AM

Translation:
Duwung (keris) Singapore?
Duwung (keris) Patani?
Duwung (keris) panjang Malaka?
The blade of the kris panjang has an elaborate pamor pattern contrary to the usual krisses panjang from Bangkinang without apparent pamor. The scabbard seems to be recently made?
Were the hilts made in Java as I understood from Amuk?
Regards

Amuk Murugul · 20th October 2021, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Translation:
Duwung (keris) Singapore?
Duwung (keris) Patani?
Duwung (keris) panjang Malaka?
The blade of the kris panjang has an elaborate pamor pattern contrary to the usual krisses panjang from Bangkinang without apparent pamor. The scabbard seems to be recently made?
Were the hilts made in Java as I understood from Amuk?
Regards

Hullo everybody!

Apologies for the VERY LATE replies.
David:
#17 is as when acquired in southern Kalamantan.
#15, #16 are modern Sleman hilts, blades and sheaths are Djawa.
None are on display.

Paul:
My spelling utilises the old Dutch system for my convenience, so that I know the correct pronunciation/origin.
Tjawsteung=Chao -Steung/-Steng= Canal People.
Back in the day, the people of the area created canal highways to transport goods from one side of the peninsula to the other or anywhere in between.
BTW..... no, I am not from Holland.

Jean:
Singgora/Singhgora/Singagora is NOT Singapore; it was a kingdom which rivalled Patani to such an extent that it drew a lot of commerce away from Patani and thus 'had to be destroyed'.
Doehoeng/dohong/duwung/duhung/keris/kris/kalis all came from the same roots.
Only hilts #15 and #16 are modern Djawa.

Best,

jagabuwana · 22nd October 2021, 04:37 AM

As is usually the case with Amuk Murugul's posts, the language and orthography used to name and describe the items tends to generate a lot of confusion.

Amuk, I can only imagine that you are tired of having to field these questions (even though they are fair questions

), so I hope I can help matters out a bit by pointing to this thread where it has been explained as Basa Sunda Jero: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=basa+jero

Interested Party · 30th November 2021, 04:25 PM

Thanks for the post as always. I always learn from Aumuk Murugul's posts. Then the questions and subsequent discussions they generate are a big bonus. How many people write in Basa Sunda Jero? How many are fluent in this language? Preservation of the language is a vital component to preservation of the culture and history. I feel that these are major goals of the posts, am I correct or reading too much subtext into the conversation?

21st May 2018, 10:14 AM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Paul in 1972 Indonesia changed the spelling of words from the Dutch system to the English system. Javanese and other local language spellings followed suit. So pre-1972 it was Dutch convention, post 1972 it was English convention As far as names go, some people have stayed with the old Dutch spellings, others have changed to new spelling. In the list below, the first column is post 1972 usage, the second column is pre-1972 usage u = oe c = tj j = dj kh = ch ny = nj sy = sj y = j This only refers to spelling, pronunciation is consistent no matter what spelling is used, and of course, pronunciation must be learnt separately. BI is the national and public language, everybody uses a local language at home and mostly in the street. Correction It has been rather forcefully pointed out to me that in the case of the letter "u" replacing the Dutch usage of "oe", this change dates from 1947. Apparently the new regime in the new country of Indonesia had such a deep seated hatred of the previous Dutch overlords that one of their first actions was to get rid of this "oe" usage, something that they found extremely offensive, and in addition, out of step with the Modern World. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 21st May 2018 at 11:36 PM.

5th July 2019, 05:53 AM	#14
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Hullo everybody! Just thought I'd drop the following three examples (with a little more data). It's posted as is, merely for sharing only. Info may be of use ..... otherwise: ".....nothing to see here .....". From L-R: . Doehoeng SINGGORA (=pale/foreign lion; named after the Turco-Mongol warrior who founded the city/state) Name: Datoe Mogel. Desc: Doehoeng Borodjol Lempeng SINGGORA . Tags: Cenok , Chenok , Chenuk , Choteng , Coteng , Singgora , Singora , Songkhla . Char: - Blade: LxOALxWxT=24.5x29x5.33x0.95cm. Wt: 75g. Handle: White-metal Jaksa(=benevolent spirit; handle symbolises human-spirit partnership) Ardatjandrakapida(=spear-of-mastery-over-celestial-beings) TJAWSTEUNG(=canal-people). Sheath: Wood Majang Golekan SINGGORA w/ white-metal bands/ftgs. . Doehoeng PATANI (=pavilion; named after the pavilion built for the ruler who reached the coast to found a new city/state) Name: Radja Pelangi Desc: Doehoeng Sampana Tjotjodot Sari Ngahateup Lempeng 18thC. PATANI . Tags: Pattani , Tajong , Tajung . Char: Kembang-katjang, Djanoer-rai, Oepih-moetjoek, Lempeng . Blade: LxOALxWxT=39.5x45x8.42x1.22cm. Handle: Wood Jaksa Birawi(=destructive-wind) TANDJOENG PATANI(=Patani-cape), swasa nose, ruby eyes w/ white-metal collar. Wt:196g. Sheath: Wood Majang Golekan PATANI w/ ivory chape. . Doehoeng Pandjang MALAKA Name: Hang Toeah Desc: Doehoeng Pandjang Tilamsari Lempeng MALAKA c1900 . Tags: Execution , Executioner , Penyalang , Salang . Char: Oepih , Lempeng . Blade: LxOALxWxT=51x57x7.05x1.24cm. Wt: 325g. Handle: White-metal Jaksa Soetjimoesti (=unstoppable-fist). Sheath: Wood Djongan w/ white-metal embossed-oversheath. Best, Attached Images Last edited by Amuk Murugul; 5th July 2019 at 06:03 AM. Reason: punctuation

20th May 2018, 06:02 AM	#1
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Landean Pralamba Collection (part of) Hullo everybody! Still in the middle of 'house-keeping'. Thought I'd snap'n'post while they're out. Just to show/share. Hope it's of use to somebody. Best, 1. Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir Tandjoeng Patani w/ embossed white-metal wewer. Sheath: Wood Majang Golekan Patani w/ embossed white metal bands/ftgs. 2. Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir Tandjoeng Patani w/ copper wewer and eyes. Sheath: Wood Two-tone Majang Golekan Patani. 3. Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir Tandjoeng Patani. Sheath: Two-tone wood Majang Golekan Patani. 4. Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir Noengkoel Tandjoeng Patani. Sheath: Wood Majang Golekan Patani. 5. Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir Noengkoel Tandjoeng Patani. Sheath:Wood Majang Golekan Patani. 6. Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir Tjawsteung. Sheath: Wood Majang Golekan Singgora w/ white-metal bands/ftgs. 7. Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir TjawSteung. Sheath: Wood one-piece. 8. Handle: Wood Boeta Noengkoel Tandjoeng Patani. Sheath: Wood, one-piece. 9. Handle: White-metal Boeta Njengir Nanggahan Malaka. Sheath: Wood Djongan w/ white-metal embossed-oversheath. 10. Handle: White-metal Boeta Njengir Djanggotan. Sheath: Wood Djongkong w/ silver ftgs. 11. Handle: Ivory Boeta Njengir w/ white-metal wewer and rings. Sheath: Wood Djongan w/ white-metal embossed sheath and rings; ivory toe. 12. Handle: White-metal Boeta Njanggejeng Gilek w/ white-metal wewer. Sheath: Wood Djongan w/ bronze o/sheath in Widjaja-motif. 13. Handle: White-metal Kitjaka w/ white-metal wewer. Sheath: Wood Majang Golekan. 14. Handle: Wood Kitjaka w/ white-metal wewer. Sheath: Wood Djongkong. 15. Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir Tandjoeng Patani (SLEMAN). Sheath: Wood Djongan w/ soenggingan Barata. 16. Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir Tandjoeng Patani (SLEMAN). Sheath: Wood Saridjong w/ soenggingan alas-alasan. 17. Handle: Wood Boeta Toengkoel w/ white-metal fangs, wewer, nose & golden eyes. Sheath: Wood Saridjong. 18. Handle: White-metal Boeta Njengir Tjawsteung. Sheath: Wood Djongan. 19. Handle: White-metal Boeta Njengir Tjawsteung. Sheath: Wood Majang Golekan Singgora w/ white-metal bands/ftgs. 20. Handle: Wood Boeta Njengir Tjawsteung. Sheath: Wood Majang Golekan Singgora w/ white-metal bands/ftgs. 21. Handle: Wood Boeta Toengkoel. Sheath: Wood Majang Golekan. 22. Handle: Wood Hoeloe Boeta. Sheath: Wood Kintjangwidjaja. 23. Handle: Wood Boeta Njanggejeng w/ white-metal wewer. Sheath: Wood Djongkong w/ white-metal o/sheath showing Widjaja-motif. 24. Handle: Horn Boeta Nanggahan . Sheath: Wood Djongkong w/ embossed white-metal o/sheath. 25. Handle: Wood Boeta Njanggejeng Gilek w/ bronze wewer. Sheath: Wood Djongkong w/ white-metal hanger. Attached Images Last edited by Amuk Murugul; 20th May 2018 at 10:55 PM.

20th May 2018, 08:38 AM	#2
Paul de Souza Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 65	Pardon my ignorance but what collection is this? From a museum or a personal collection. Just taken by the the Tajong and coteng pieces and hilts.

20th May 2018, 10:36 AM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Very nice collection, thanks! It is not my area of collecting but I am a bit surprised by the mixing of tajong style hilts and Javanese scabbards? Regards

20th May 2018, 05:12 PM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Amuk, The wood species names are unknown to me (majang, djongan, etc), do you know their equivalent in Bahasa Indonesia? And as David said, it would be nice to see the blades also and the detailed pics of the hilts. Regards

21st May 2018, 05:03 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Thank you for posting these images Amuk, very interesting. You advise that the names you have used for the scabbards are in a language other than BI or Javanese, that the names you have used are not mainstream names. May I ask the place and time when the names that you use for the scabbards would be recognised by a person who was keris literate? Thank you.

21st May 2018, 05:21 AM	#11
Paul de Souza Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 65	Just curious. But isn't the spelling Amuk is using Dutch? "Tjawsteung" = Coteng "Tandjoeng" = Tajong I have a relative whose father hails from Bangka Island, under Dutch control in the 30s, has the surname Tjang but the rest of the cousins born in Singapore, under the British, have the surname Chang. Amuk is not usisg the spelling of Bahasa Indonesia or Malaysia. Are u from Holland Amuk?

5th July 2019, 09:58 AM	#15
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Translation: Duwung (keris) Singapore? Duwung (keris) Patani? Duwung (keris) panjang Malaka? The blade of the kris panjang has an elaborate pamor pattern contrary to the usual krisses panjang from Bangkinang without apparent pamor. The scabbard seems to be recently made? Were the hilts made in Java as I understood from Amuk? Regards

22nd October 2021, 04:37 AM	#17
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 281	As is usually the case with Amuk Murugul's posts, the language and orthography used to name and describe the items tends to generate a lot of confusion. Amuk, I can only imagine that you are tired of having to field these questions (even though they are fair questions ), so I hope I can help matters out a bit by pointing to this thread where it has been explained as Basa Sunda Jero: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=basa+jero

30th November 2021, 04:25 PM	#18
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 471	Thanks for the post as always. I always learn from Aumuk Murugul's posts. Then the questions and subsequent discussions they generate are a big bonus. How many people write in Basa Sunda Jero? How many are fluent in this language? Preservation of the language is a vital component to preservation of the culture and history. I feel that these are major goals of the posts, am I correct or reading too much subtext into the conversation?